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Old 11-13-2005, 10:58 PM   #361
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Yeah, it was a beginner class....give me a break.

The 1985 Offroad worlds....you know the one AE for so long bragged about winning with Jay Halsey.....well, guess what...he won in STOCK....there was actually a modified class won by Gil Losi Jr at the same race...

So yer gonna tell everyone here....Stock was designed as a beginner class that had a world championship???

Maybe stuff was different there in Tar Heel country......

Stock was designed as a lower cost class, that put emphasis on the DRIVER not the equipment.....it just didn't work out so well....

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Old 11-13-2005, 11:03 PM   #362
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Scott Brown, was a full factory Losi driver in like 1988....he was winning stock titles into the 90's.....look it up. I am sure you will find many many more names...

Maybe like the won I just posted, who won a World title...

And remember, back then, the speed between modified and stock, was much less of a difference because of the batteries we used.....we used to dump in Stock Offroad.....

And for the record, I voted for a progression system in the ROAR onroad committee, even came up with ideas to curb the manufactures from sponsoring people....problem is, it never made it anywhere...

Regardless though, stock as never designed a beginner class....thats what NOVICE was....in our region, Novice used to be a huge class at bigger events....even at regionals....its all but disappeared now, even on the club level...


By the way, nice language on a public forum......

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Old 11-13-2005, 11:10 PM   #363
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if one can get ahold of from 1989 into the early 1990's Old RC Car Actions you would find out that factory guys did run stock. not to pick on them but Team Losi at the time was.

i lived in PHX, AZ from 86-89 and 91-95. the Losi JRX was new in 89, the team was smaller than today, AE had the best world team in my opinion. at several of/near all the Cactus Classics, AE ruled in mod and Losi in stock (none of the TOP AE drivers ran stock maybe sub/partial sponsored racers did?).

the results/tech sheets for the are in ink/history. there are AE ads stating their cars won at the Cactus and Losi has ads stating the same. Class/motor not specified.

BTW, i still bought a JRX-2 Pro anyway at that time.


ONROAD, in 12th scale up to 1989 the 27T yokomo/kyosho $24-8 stock wasn't legal. 12th stock ran a slow IGARASHI 30 something copper levered brushed $10 sealed can motor.

at the ROAR Region 6 in 1988 or 89 (at the time, 12 now) held at the original SRS (Scale Racing Sports) in Tempe, AZ on a nice asphalt track designed for 1/8 gas onroad cars.
Butch Kloeber won 1/12th stock, his lap total would have put him in third in Mod behind Randy Hunter and Rick Howart...with a stock motor!
Bob Nessinger (spelling?) won 1/12th Novice stock, beat us bad, 4 laps over second place.

what's the deal? Butch was a full sponsored AE RC500 1/8 gas driver. he ran mod 12th before, but switched to stock for a ROAR Region Event. their were smaller teams/sponsored racers also in stock....no one complained. their were other teams with drivers in stock. you will find his name in older pubs. along with Ralph Burch.

Bob, now that was another story. he was the brother of AE's current world 1/12 champion Tony. there was complaining, back stabbing, sandbagging accusations, etc, etc. not from us locals, but competitors who came from California.

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Old 11-13-2005, 11:19 PM   #364
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I didn't pay the tiniest bit of attention to offroad back then so I only know what went on in 1/12th scale. I guess 1/12th wasn't as a popular so manufacturers didn't see any dollar signs in sponsoring some stock 1/12th scale racer.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:35 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Scott Brown, was a full factory Losi driver in like 1988....he was winning stock titles into the 90's.....look it up. I am sure you will find many many more names...

Maybe like the won I just posted, who won a World title...

And remember, back then, the speed between modified and stock, was much less of a difference because of the batteries we used.....we used to dump in Stock Offroad.....

And for the record, I voted for a progression system in the ROAR onroad committee, even came up with ideas to curb the manufactures from sponsoring people....problem is, it never made it anywhere...

Regardless though, stock as never designed a beginner class....thats what NOVICE was....in our region, Novice used to be a huge class at bigger events....even at regionals....its all but disappeared now, even on the club level...


By the way, nice language on a public forum......

Later EddieO

Crap isn't that bad of a word, they say it on network TV now.

As far as progression, get back in ROAR's face about it. Because if you don't, your gonna be out of people to sell motors to within the decade.

This hobby is losing people left and right. On the racing side the structure (ROAR, IFMAR) is nearly 80% at fault. The other side of the problem is people with bad attitudes treating new-comers like idiots.

We all could do more to make new folks feel welcome at the track.
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Last edited by Soviet; 11-14-2005 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:36 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike
I didn't pay the tiniest bit of attention to offroad back then so I only know what went on in 1/12th scale. I guess 1/12th wasn't as a popular so manufacturers didn't see any dollar signs in sponsoring some stock 1/12th scale racer.

Stock was never that big in the 80s. Eddies trying to rationalize.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:48 PM   #367
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Stock was huge here....are you nuts? Stock over populated the offroad nats so much, that they seperated the nats into a stock and modified nats...

As for the progression thing.....I can't force anything, committee members just get to work as a group to recommend stuff to excomm, they have the final say...not us.

I do find it funny, yer complaining about people not getting out of stock.....yet you have that your TC3 uses a stock in your signature, though you claim to have been racing since the 80's.....yer still a beginner after 15 years?

Funny...

And that word is not allowed on ABC, NBC, CBS, or FOX.....only stations like FX.....TBS doesn't even allow it.....even MTV beeps it from songs...regardless, its not allowed on RCtech....

Later EddieO
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Old 11-14-2005, 12:04 AM   #368
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can't speak for everyplace else at the time. Stock was big in the PHX area from 86-89 when i was there and in 91 when i went back.

there were no truck classes back then other than the Marui Big Bear and Tamiya Blackfoots till mid 89. those were kept simple.

one of the first 3 years of the Cactus Classic at the original SRS location. they didn't limit the sign-up like the have since 93/94? there was no separation between expert, etc. the mains exceeded the alphabet and went into double letter mains in stock buggy.

i signed up for 3-4 classes back then. most of us did, including those out of town. definitely not allowed today, think it's 2 max with a limit of 350 for total entries?

anyway classes were simple, sponsored qualed with us nonsponsored.
novice, stk, mod 2wd
stk, mod 4wd.
Truck started in 89 i beleive with adaptor hub kits for the RC10, etc, they first 1/8 offroad tires.

althought not as big there were quite a few 4wd STOCK mains also. infact 4wd stock with pros driving would set the highest lap and time total of the race.

stock must have been popular at least on the west side of the US. this wasn't a locals only race back then.

ROAR lifted the 12 Deg timing advance rule and it was stock motor of the week until they hit a peak of as high as 45 - 48 deg advance in 1993. talk about 2 race puffers

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Old 11-14-2005, 12:24 AM   #369
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My first BIG race, was the Northwest annual summer sizzler, which used to draw 250-300 entrants way back when...

I competed in the Novice class, as it was considered the beginner class, and I had only really been racing for about 1 year competively...

Novice went into the F main.....2wd stock was in M or something if memory serves correct.....Truck stock was into the H or something.....4wd stock into the J....

Modified was popular too, 2wd into the F, truck in the F also.....4wd went to a D....

Scott Brown, factory team losi won both 2wd classes in 1988, the year before.....he missed the race in 1989, due the fact he was fully sponsored by then and was competing at a national event if memory serves correct.

The 1990 regionals in the NW had almost 200 entrants......Stock went down to a L main....while modified went to a D.....truck stock and 4wd stock had bigger turn outs....

Scott Brown, again....a FULL factory losi driver competed in both 2wd Stock and 2wd Modified....he lost stock to my good friend Spencer Winslow, a fully independant driver.....not a single sponsor. He lost modified to Carlos Gonazalez, a full factory AE/Peak driver when his ball link popped off in like the last corner the corner marshal corner his car facing the wrong way, so he got stuck again, instead of just being able to limp across the line....

YUP YUP....stock has never been big...yer nuts dude, its ALWAYS been big....and very very popular.

Later EddieO
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Old 11-14-2005, 12:40 AM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Yeah, it was a beginner class....give me a break.

The 1985 Offroad worlds....you know the one AE for so long bragged about winning with Jay Halsey.....well, guess what...he won in STOCK....there was actually a modified class won by Gil Losi Jr at the same race...

So yer gonna tell everyone here....Stock was designed as a beginner class that had a world championship???

Maybe stuff was different there in Tar Heel country......

Stock was designed as a lower cost class, that put emphasis on the DRIVER not the equipment.....it just didn't work out so well....

Later EddieO

Probably due to, that was the time frame that Losi Jr. left AE right after winning that. from some of the sponsored local AE drivers....AE were having Issues over the 12L that Losi originally designed and AE wanted it oneway & Jr. wanted it another. i got to see his made to order original version, one local racer had one he paid $400 to have made from Gil.

also in 86 when Losi as their own company and store Ranch Pit Stop started importing the Yokomo Dogfighter YZ-10, AE took Losi to court. more or less...AE claimed it was the soul importer of all YOK stuff. Losi fought their ground on the bases that AE had no intention of importing anything other than the motors. no one won (but the lawyers) or lost. infact within a year Losi i think was selling their REVOLUTION motor based on the YOk can
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Old 11-14-2005, 12:49 AM   #371
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I may be wrong, but I think I read some where that Gil was running a 4wd car, as modified allowed either 2wd or 4wd...

Later EddieO
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Old 11-14-2005, 01:11 AM   #372
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Racing is Racing no matter what class just go out and have fun!!!
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Old 11-14-2005, 01:11 AM   #373
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from AE's site

Associated's first 1/10 off road racing team
There was only one problem--we didn't have an off road team! We were all on road racers. So, Mike Reedy recommended we ask Jay Halsey to see if he would like to join our Team. Mike had been working with Jay with motors in off road. Jay agreed to join the Team, and Gil Losi Jr., who also raced on our 1/8 gas on road Team, also volunteered to join the Team.

So we gave Jay and Gil Jr. their cars so they could learn how to tune the cars before the upcoming ROAR Nationals in Vineland, NJ. The rest of the Team was all 1/8 gas racers: Roger Curtis, Curtis Husting, Ron Paris, and me. The RC10 dominated the race, with Jay Halsey running away with the event.

From that point on, RC10's dominated off road racing worldwide. For the next six years Associated could not keep up with the demand for the RC10 cars. We doubled the size of the company, and moved in to a much larger building, but the demand for cars kept growing.

The first ever IFMAR Off Road World Championships was held the next year, 1985, in Del Mar, California. Jay Halsey ran away with the race, becoming the first ever IFMAR World Champion.

An interesting sidenote on this World's was that we made a last minute decision to have some fun, and turn an RC10 into a 4WD car. When I say last minute, I mean we didn't get it done until the night before qualifying started. It was very fast when it was running, but we ran into too many unforeseen mechanical problems. Although, it was fun for a while!

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doesn't really say what motor Halsey drove? (still a well deserved win)

doesn't say who drove the RC10 as a 4WD?

i think the 4WD was based off MIP/Eustace Moores design?
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:37 AM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
doesn't say who drove the RC10 as a 4WD?

i think the 4WD was based off MIP/Eustace Moores design?
Jay Halsey drove the 4wd RC10 in the Open class and yes, several components were from MIP's 4wd conversion.

Gil Losi Jr won the Open class driving an RPS Yokomo Dogfighter.

This one:
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The "Thats it!!! Get the F_*K out of Stock!!!" thread-gillosiyokomo.jpg  
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Old 11-14-2005, 06:16 AM   #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Stock was huge here....are you nuts? Stock over populated the offroad nats so much, that they seperated the nats into a stock and modified nats...

As for the progression thing.....I can't force anything, committee members just get to work as a group to recommend stuff to excomm, they have the final say...not us.

I do find it funny, yer complaining about people not getting out of stock.....yet you have that your TC3 uses a stock in your signature, though you claim to have been racing since the 80's.....yer still a beginner after 15 years?

Funny...

And that word is not allowed on ABC, NBC, CBS, or FOX.....only stations like FX.....TBS doesn't even allow it.....even MTV beeps it from songs...regardless, its not allowed on RCtech....

Later EddieO

Well, my comments were mostly directed towards onroad. However especially since you're talking California off-road and I'm talking east-coast oval and onroad pan, I'm sure it broke down somewhat differently.

BTW, no claim about it, I have been racing that long. (In huge on and off spurts) However my gist pertains more towards high-level racing and a marked lack of fresh talent in "faster" classes. Also, just because someone's been racing a long time doesn't mean that they have the time and money to go 100% full bore into it like others do. Thats also why I readily embrace technology that reduces maintenance. (Insert free brushless plug here....)

BTW, posts re-edited for a more "PG-13" audience.


Also, in a side note. There is a "culture war" brewing within the RC landscape. Many things are changing or people are calling for a change. Either way, there are many who resist change even if it's positive because it screws with their happy place. (Or livelyhood.)
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