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Old 11-13-2005, 09:36 AM   #301
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This thread topic really applies to about 15-20 drivers nationally that everyone has seen perennially in the A-mains of Stock classes at major races. Many of these guys are spokesmen and clear representatives of the companies that sponsor them. Why these guys continue to run stock to cherry pick trophies and recognition instead of moving to classes that they should be competing in is beyond me.

Club level class selection is one thing, but everyone knows that there are a group of guys running stock at big races that shouldn't be there. Soviet's points are valid... stock class at big races should be left to those racers who have not yet been recognized nationally by sponsors and publications.

Ideally, the guys in the A-main at races like this should be seen as, "keep your eyes on these up-and-comers."
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Old 11-13-2005, 09:48 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by dmatter
RC Racers are about like Women..........There never Happy
Watch it my friend. There are actaully racers in this sport that are women
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Old 11-13-2005, 10:16 AM   #303
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Grey Goose always does me well.
Grey Goose Vanilla

...about the only thing the French can do right, lol.


...just kidding.
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Old 11-13-2005, 10:24 AM   #304
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Seems to me that mod isn't very popular at the club level. Maybe those guys don't have a mod class they can compete in locally, where they hone their skills? It seems unreasonable to expect people to compete at the next level if they have little opportunity (outside of large races) to practice competing at that level.

I don't understand why skill and the speed at which you race has to be equal. There are undesirable problems associated with racing mod that a lot of people don't want to deal with. At no point do I wish my car were significantly faster. I spend more time wishing I could find the best line around the track.

For me, I find the races that combine the fast guys from mod with the fast guys from stock in a 19T class the most interesting. It seems like a good middle ground that provides a realistic glimpse into the talent gap between the fast club guys like those listed above, and the superstars. Isn't it usually a lap or two? I imagine mod would only exacerbate that gap for the guys with little opportunity to practice in it.

Maybe we need more class distinction, but doing so only with the speed of motors isn't the answer.

And, insert obligatory, irrelevant (to this post) plug for brushless here, for Eddie. :-)
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Old 11-13-2005, 10:32 AM   #305
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1. Layman Stock
2. Expert Stock
3. Expert 19T
4. Expert (Open) Mod

If you enter an expert class, you can't enter a layman class. The only problem is getting wheel time for layman guys that want to race two classes. In theory, if they're good enough to enter two classes, they should consider entering in expert. The other classes would be wide open to anybody that wanted to enter them. Factory guys and fast club guys.

Just a thought. It seems more reasonable to do this with classes than with equipment, for the reasons mentioned above.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:16 AM   #306
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So maybe the question here should be, why do the fast guys want to stay in stock? I agree that there should be two levels of stock. However, my local track has done that....at least they did about 3 years ago. Then I left racing for awhile. Now I come back, and no more sportsman (entry level) class. I have not asked why, but I am sure it came down to not enough people to run two classes. Ok, back to the first line again. I am amazed that no one has said anything about stock being the most equal playing field out there. You can say that 19t is the same thing only faster...but really it is a little more open when it comes to motors than stock.

Now when everyone is talking about guys running stock at the local level that have a factory backing. Are you sure that they are just not wearing the shirts?? There is a guy that is "helped" in my local stock class. But you know what, he is not all that fast. Oh, and we do have a real pro in house now too. Would I mind him running in the same class? Hell no!! Well I be on the same lap as he will? Not even close I am sure! Should he be there....Yes I think he should.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:38 AM   #307
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Well, one could argue that it requires a different skill set to navigate a car around a small track as fast as the car is capable of going (7T, or whatever) than it does to get around the track as quickly as possible with much less speed. Could the guys that are good at driving fast be better at driving slow (stock) than the guys who do it all the time?

I just think it's unfair to assume that if you're better, you should go faster. There are nuances of getting the most out of a slow car that are fun, perhaps more so than getting the most out of a fast car, for some people. Again, it's unfair to force people into something different than what they choose to be good at.

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that I don't think it's correct to look at mod as being the next level. It's different, and requires unique skills, but we should reevaluate the paradigm that it's the next step, because clearly that's not the direction things have gone with the new breed of racers. This thread seems intent on forcing people in that direction, and I don't think that's necessarily the right idea.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:40 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed



This thread topic really applies to about 15-20 drivers nationally that everyone has seen perennially in the A-mains of Stock classes at major races. Many of these guys are spokesmen and clear representatives of the companies that sponsor them. Why these guys continue to run stock to cherry pick trophies and recognition instead of moving to classes that they should be competing in is beyond me.

Club level class selection is one thing, but everyone knows that there are a group of guys running stock at big races that shouldn't be there. Soviet's points are valid... stock class at big races should be left to those racers who have not yet been recognized nationally by sponsors and publications.

Ideally, the guys in the A-main at races like this should be seen as, "keep your eyes on these up-and-comers."
How could 15-20 guys be cherry picking, stock is competitive, as I've said before back to the D main! It seems to me that no single top stock driver is dominating with absolution, so how is this cherry picking. Its just close racing. Why stock should be a beginners class is beyond me. If there are 40 guys better than you who want to race stock you belong 40 spots back its that simple.
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Old 11-13-2005, 11:47 AM   #309
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It's clear that winning big races sells cars. It seems reasonable that manufacturers would want to win the stock and 19T classes every bit as much as mod, since that's where a vast majority of club racers spend their time. In fact, I'm surprised the larger companies don't have more sponsored drivers in the slower classes.
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Old 11-13-2005, 12:10 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by XrayFK
Grey Goose Vanilla

...about the only thing the French can do right, lol.


...just kidding.

Grey Goose anything, damn that stuff is good!


And yes, the French suck.
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Old 11-13-2005, 12:20 PM   #311
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Lowes sells em Sean for a small fee... i can get ya a deal. We all need to keep the puter away from the workbench... i do the same thing... wrench... check rctech... wrench... pee... check rctech. Ask the wife when dinners ready... think about rctech as i watch a "chick flick" with her. Wrench and laugh at posts on rctech. Pee. Talk about needing a life.



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Old 11-13-2005, 02:16 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by syndr0me
Well, one could argue that it requires a different skill set to navigate a car around a small track as fast as the car is capable of going (7T, or whatever) than it does to get around the track as quickly as possible with much less speed. Could the guys that are good at driving fast be better at driving slow (stock) than the guys who do it all the time?

I just think it's unfair to assume that if you're better, you should go faster. There are nuances of getting the most out of a slow car that are fun, perhaps more so than getting the most out of a fast car, for some people. Again, it's unfair to force people into something different than what they choose to be good at.

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that I don't think it's correct to look at mod as being the next level. It's different, and requires unique skills, but we should reevaluate the paradigm that it's the next step, because clearly that's not the direction things have gone with the new breed of racers. This thread seems intent on forcing people in that direction, and I don't think that's necessarily the right idea.
It does require different skills to drive well in both mod and stock and to be a well rounded driver you need experience in both.There are things that are very difficult to learn driving an overpowered car and things that you will never learn driving an underpowered car.Someone could be a master at driving stock but if they have never driven mod they may be terrible at it,and vice-versa.Some enjoy getting the most out of a limited car,some get more satisfaction out of "taming the beast",and they tend to look down their noses at each other.Soviet said earlier that the racing structure is a mess and he's right.There is just an awful lot about it that doesn't do anything to help the growth of the hobby.People do drop out and you have to have new people to replace them or you eventually end up with no one to race with.There has to be somewhere for those new and intermediate racers to run,so whether they move up,move down,or move over,they need to make room.The simple and effective way to separate them is by the tires-foams and rubber.The guys that are already fast will likely want to run foams anyway,and rubber tires are a better to learn with.It's cheaper(they don't chunk),maximum horsepower is slightly less important,and if you can drive well with rubber tires then you will be well prepared to move up.It's a natural progression to move up the greater precision and competition of foam tire racing as you go along and accumulate the skills and equipment needed to run at a higher level.It's also a lot easier on people's fragile egos-it's not beginner,or rookie,or sportsman class.It's the rubber tire class,and people can run it because "that foam tire class is just too expensive",and the fast guys still get to be the fastest.

At the national level,who cares? Those big national events don't do anything to help the turnout at local tracks.
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Old 11-13-2005, 02:31 PM   #313
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I have to say I agree with you. I concur with your long-winded and exhasperated narrative, and will voice my own as well.

I am not at all new to R/C (been running them, playing with them for going on 18 years)

I AM completely new to true competitive racing.

So far I cannot see ANY reason for people who can navigate around a track well to not do it any faster.

I think that the novice class should be just that (completely new and unable to go a set of laps (4 or 5) without hitting a board.

The stock class should be those guys that are good enough to get around the track with only one or two minor mistakes (if that), who are still learning about true competition tuning.

anybody who can "dial" a car and navigate a track without crashing should be putting more power into their car.. plain and simple.

I've only been out to two races so far, the first one i didn't finish 3 three heats and ended up winning a main in the novice class because I didn't crash once. My car was EASILY the slowest out there, but not crashing won the race.

The next weekend out I qualified well and lead the main for the majority, only to lose it in the very end. This was done in the stock class. The people who got the top spots were very good drivers, one a 40 something father who owns his own small battery/hop-up local business, and the other a 35-ish father who is the local motor guru!

at both races the battery guy was asked by some of the faster 19t class guys who are friends of his when he will be making the move to 19t. His reply both times was that he wanted to exhaust the stock class and really be ready for the faster car. I understand this completely, but think that with his tuning knowledge and his apparent edge over the field, the move should have been made already.

You can't learn to drive a faster car without driving a faster car.

I watched this guy race very closely and it seems to me his movements, lines and style could all BENEFIT from a car with more power.

Again, I have to say I agree with you.

Come on you p*&#ies, put something big in it and see if you can TUNE THAT!

I hope to be moving up to 19t by my fifth race. If my progression stays as steady as it has this should be no problem.

ha.. how's that for long-winded!

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Ok,

Sorry guys but I have alienated myself from my local crowd and must issue a formal apology for this comment I made early on in the thread. For any non-locals you may not wish to read this.

When I mentioned the two locals, in no way did I mean to offend. The p(&@ies comment that was said in the end was IN NO WAY meant to be aimed at any specific person, but more to any populous that would knowingly and purposely sandbag a class for fear of losing, or having to "re-learn".

At the race in question, the only reason I was able to do as well as I did is because the "motor guru" was holding back to make the race more exciting and to help the "fun factor". At least this is the way it seemed..I may be wrong.

Both of these gentlemen helped this newbie out (and I do mean that, as I mentioned in the above I AM completely new to competitive racing) a ton. One helped set me up with electronics and the guru tuned my monster stock free of charge!

As it were, I was merely trying to voice my opinion on the subject at hand given my own situation. With my limited amount of experience, and my limited knowledge of the two men in question I have to say that it was completely in bad taste to mention them at all and that I am very sorry for any offense caused.

In fact, I just got back from this weeks race and both of these gentlemen were in attendance. Fran, thank you for being so forgiving. Larry, I understand you are mad and have every right to be. Your driving in the stock and 19t class today definitely opened my eyes. Neither of you guys should ever have your sportsmanship brought into question in any way.

I look forward to racing with you gentlemen again, and I hope that we can maybe chalk this up to "young punk" stupidity, and leave it behind us.

Sincerely yours,
The Idiot In Question,
Bill
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Old 11-13-2005, 02:42 PM   #314
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I don't know if this has been offered up, but how about an invitational class for stock for these drivers that are heavily sponsered, company reps, and so on. Everyone knows who they are. this of course should only be used during these major events.
Just a thought. I think I have seen this done before with the mod class (reedy race?) Why not stock?
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Old 11-13-2005, 02:45 PM   #315
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I don't know if this has been offered up, but how about an invitational class for stock for these drivers that are heavily sponsered, company reps, and so on. Everyone knows who they are. this of course should only be used during these major events.
Just a thought. I think I have seen this done before with the mod class (reedy race?) Why not stock?

that may be one of the most sensable thoughts I have heard in a while... but what would be the first events list... then after that...

maybe an opening crowd of names.. then bottom 5 get dropped, and top 5 in the open stock class from that year will be invited next year?? how would it work, ya know??

perhaps start out with any drivers recieving 100% from more than 1 company?
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