R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

    Hide Wikipost
Old 03-29-2017, 02:04 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Motiv RC
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: R Dodge
NEW FOR 2017 - MC2!

MOTIV M-Code motors, now MC2 for 2017, come pre-set to perform well in most applications. Each MOTIV M-Code motor comes with a specification check list specific to that individual motor. All MOTIV M-Code spec motors come standard with the new "S-HIGH" rotor. If you prefer a different rotor, please send an email via the "Contact Us" page on the Motiv site and reference your order.

Motiv dealers in the U.S. that have received MC2s are:

ProLevel RC
Fordham Hobbies
Lefthander RC
TQ RC Racing
Activ RC
Gripworks RC
Stormer Hobbies
AMain Hobbies
NorCal Hobbies

& More - Check your local hobby shop!

“Defy” Series Pro Li-Po battery weights

“Shorty” 2 Cell, 7.4v, 5000mah, 65c+ - 215 grams
“Thin Shorty” 2 Cell, 7.4v, 3900mah, 65c+ - 159 grams
2 Cell, 7.4v, 5000mah, 60c+ - 258 grams
2 Cell, 7.4v, 6000mah, 90c+ - 311 grams

Following are some suggested starting points for the MC2 line of motors for each class (we will update/add to this as often as possible). One key piece to pay attention to when adjusting your motor is Amp Draw. Try to keep spec motors around 3.0.

25.5 F1
FDR: 2.9-3.2
Timing: 42-45* measured on Motolyser
Rotor: 12.3mm standard
Fan: Yes

25.5 USVTA
FDR: 3.6-3.9
Timing: 44-46* measured on Motolyser
Rotor: 12.3mm standard
Fan: Yes

21.5 USGT
FDR: 3.9-4.1
Timing: 46-48* measured on Motolyser
Rotor: S-HIGH
Fan: Yes

17.5 TC (Indoor/Small-Std. size Tracks)
FDR: 4.1-4.4
Timing: 46-48* measured on Motolyser
Rotor: S-HIGH
Fan: Yes

17.5 TC (Outdoor/Larger Tracks)
FDR: 3.8-4.0
Timing: 46-48* measured on Motolyser
Rotor: S-HIGH
Fan: Yes

17.5 1/12
Rollout: 83-85mm
Timing: 44-46* measured on Motolyser
Rotor: S-MID
Fan: No

13.5 TC (Indoor/Small-Std. size Tracks)
FDR: 4.7-4.9
Timing: 46-48* measured on Motolyser
Rotor: S-HIGH
Fan: Yes

13.5 TC (Outdoor/Larger Tracks)
FDR: 4.4-4.6
Timing: 46-48* measured on Motolyser
Rotor: S-HIGH
Fan: Yes

13.5 1/12
Rollout: 78-80mm
Timing: 44-46* measured on Motolyser
Rotor: S-MID
Fan: No

WGTR
Rollout: 73mm
Timing: 46
Rotor: S-MID for larger tracks. S-HIGH for smaller tracks, or tracks with black carpet.

17.5 2WD Buggy
FDR: 5.85-6.0
Timing: 45-48*
Rotor: S-HIGH
Fan: Yes

17.5 2WD SC & Stadium Truck
FDR: 7.5-7.8
Timing: 45-47*
Rotor: S-HIGH
Fan: Yes

13.5 4WD Buggy
FDR: 7.0-7.2
Timing: 45-47*
Rotor: S-HIGH
Fan: Yes

Following are starting points for Mod motors in the MC1 line

7.5 2WD Buggy
FDR: 10.2
Timing: @ 28*
Rotor: M-MID
Fan: Optional

5.5 TC
FDR: 7.0-7.2
Timing: @ 30*
Rotor: M-HIGH
Fan: Optional

4.5 TC
FDR: 7.6-7.8
Timing: @ 20*
Rotor: M-HIGH
Fan: Optional

Every MOTIV Motor is hand checked, assembled and packaged by a professional in house at our WI, USA office. During this process every motor component must meet MOTIV requirements before assembly and packaging. Included is a specification check list which is filled out on a motor to motor basis all through the testing and assembly process to ensure the quality of our finished product


How its Made: Motiv RC Brushless Motor assembly w/ Paul Lemieux

Print Wikipost

Like Tree68Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-12-2016, 07:37 AM   #301
Tech Elite
 
imprsme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Va.
Posts: 3,714
Trader Rating: 74 (99%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
Well out of the box it's nowhere near a 24k, can't see it being competitive like this!
I once had a very established motor builder tell me one year at Snowbirds. "We don't race dyno's". I've seen some of the fastest guys in the country have some of the worst dyno numbers.

I always find it funny (at my local tracks). The guys that complain about motor number and constantly buy motors of the week are the same guys that are laps off the pace.

They can tell you how many Kv, rpm, rotor strength and deviation of the sensor board for every motor they have. Will spend hours tinkering with shimming a motor to get 1 More Kv or 100 more rpm. But ask them what Shock oil, piston, droop, camber, caster or ride height they are running and they have no clue. They have not been thru their car in weeks have shock with no oil, bearings that are seized and then complain about motor temps or lack of speed.

More time on the chassis will yield more gain on the track than you will ever gain from a spec motor on a dyno.


Just some food for thought
__________________
AwesomatixUSA
eXpress Motorsports
imprsme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 07:59 AM   #302
Tech Champion
 
nexxus's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 8,069
Trader Rating: 302 (100%+)
Default

I've found that the builders who belittle dynos the most perform the worst on them. Once you have your car set up and are competitive, you look for gains in your motors. Given my last main event I lapped the field in the last race, I don't question my car's set up but look to gain on the motor side.
__________________
A800 / A800X Awesomatix

Don't worry about what I'm doing.
Worry about why you're worried about what I'm doing.

"Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity."

nexxus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 08:01 AM   #303
Tech Master
 
Dino_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Markham
Posts: 1,115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
Any ideas on gearing for an M Code 21.5 in a touring car? As a guide I am running FDR of 2.78 with a Fantom FR-1 set at 48 degrees actual timing in an Awesomatix A800. In my A700 I run a FDR of 2.85 using either the FR-1 or a Trinity 24K 21.5 with actual timing of 46 degrees. (Timing is as per my motorlyzer). Motors come off around 60c after a run I have been running my 13.5 in the A800 at a FDR of 4 but the motor was coming off at around 40c without a fan.
I mainly run USGT 21.5. I owned several 24k certified and Fantom before switching to Motiv so hopefully I can help. My question is which Motiv did you get? S-MID or S-HIGH? For a track of your size, you definitely want S-MID.

The fantom normally has more torque than the 24k, thus you will always have a slightly lower FDR with a fantom. Also the 24k is more of an RPM motor, hence good on large tracks. The Motiv has way more torque than either of those 2 motors, hence you probably have to gear lower to get the speed out of it when running the S-MID version. If you are already running 2.78, perhaps try 2.6.
Timing wise between 47-49 with a S-MID

The S-HIGH will have way more torque and not enough RPM compared to the S-MID and not the best application of that rotor on a big track.
__________________
* Team Great Hobbies * Team Powers * Exotek *
http://www.sidsraceway.com
Dino_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 08:43 AM   #304
Tech Champion
 
nexxus's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 8,069
Trader Rating: 302 (100%+)
Default

Yeah it's smid set the timing to around 49-50 for 4.2a seemed to drop off after that

will re dyno now I've reset the timing and post (kids asleep now) top sensor screw was stripped out of the box so had to deemed it to loosen it up so I could change timing wasn't impressed with that but all sorted now
nexxus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 08:44 AM   #305
Tech Master
 
Dino_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Markham
Posts: 1,115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3VoLuTiOn View Post
what timing are those motors at?

in 17.5 I found the motiv similar to the 24k in performance.

my 24k had more power at the start with fading at the end, with a friends motiv running more consistent throughout the run and more power at the end - that's dependent on timing and gearing of course.

For 21.5 I liked the motiv around 52* on the can, I'd gear it up. 40c is too cold for it to be going fast. No 21.5 24k to compare with at the time.
I agree with your comments about the fade on the 24k. I find that if you bring the timing down to 40-43 and add one more tooth to the pinion it helps. The motiv is solid the entire run.

We run on smaller tight track up here mainly with 60ft straights.

The motiv with S-HIGH is ideal on tight tracks, and I found that if the track is a bit more open I would run, FDR 3.9 with 49 timing, and if the track has more slow speed corners, I bring the timing down to 40 and a 3.8 FDR. The lower timing increases more mid range power even though you lowered the FDR. Motor temps are in the 140-150 range with fan
__________________
* Team Great Hobbies * Team Powers * Exotek *
http://www.sidsraceway.com
Dino_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 09:09 AM   #306
Tech Master
 
Dino_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Markham
Posts: 1,115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
Yeah it's smid set the timing to around 49-50 for 4.2a seemed to drop off after that

will re dyno now I've reset the timing and post (kids asleep now) top sensor screw was stripped out of the box so had to deemed it to loosen it up so I could change timing wasn't impressed with that but all sorted now
Anyhow, on the bench (Dyno) the 24k will have higher numbers in terms of RPM and amp draw vs the Motiv. I know it is deceiving, cause you don't have a flywheel to test actual torque numbers. The motive will always draw less rpm and amp due to it higher torque.

I can give you an example. Most of my 24k have a gauss rating of 1525, and my cert 1552. My motiv has 1648 with the S-HIGH. The higher the gauss the more torque the rotor has. The rating on the stator matters too, but just taking the rotor as a quick comparison.

But on the track, the motiv has way more mid range, thus you can use a way lower FDR with the more acceleration and same top speed.
Here is an idea. Best way is to calculate the roll out with FDR and max rpm of the 24k and then use to figure out what FDR you need based on the RPM of the motiv. Then let us know how is the acceleration of the motiv vs the 24k.
__________________
* Team Great Hobbies * Team Powers * Exotek *
http://www.sidsraceway.com
Dino_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 09:22 AM   #307
Tech Champion
 
nexxus's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 8,069
Trader Rating: 302 (100%+)
Default

My Dyno uses a flywheel so will pick up torque just too noisy at night the unloaded motor checker I can get away with lol also have a gauss meter and stator meter
nexxus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 11:30 AM   #308
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,266
Trader Rating: 20 (100%+)
Default

I don't own a 21.5 of any kind but I've played with plenty of 17.5's and 13.5's from Motiv and others. I've found it best to evaluate each motors power curve as I set it up looking for the best area under the curve. Not specifically looking for RPM, current draw, KV, etc.. Doing so the Motiv motors I've used generally do draw a bit less current than some others mfg motors, and have a lower KV than those motors. But, on the track the Motiv's are just as fast as others and generally have very little fade and run at a good temp.

Generally at the end of a competitive run inside these motors are 150-160°f. During the summer we run on a large outdoor track. Normally I run mod outside but on the rare occasion I've had to run 17.5 the temp will creep up to 180-185° but the motor still runs very strong. And, that temp is common with all brands of 17.5's at this track.

Also, I'm just not a fan of equalizing current draw to compare motors. I want to see the best performance out of each motor and if that happens at different current draws then so be it. I often see people suggest that 6.0a is the sweet spot for a 17.5 motor and I'll agree that it's not a bad setting but it's not a one-size-fits-all kinda deal.

Now, if you don't have a motor checker or any other tools (clearly nexxus, you do) I would take a Motiv right out of the box, set the endbell at 48° and go have fun with it. All of the Motiv's I've checked with the stock S-Mid rotor work very well at that setting and don't fade at the end, when geared well (see wiki).

Bottom line for me is that the track tells the full story but setting the motor to what looks to be it's sweet spot before hitting the track helps you narrow down where you need to be with very little guesswork at the track.
__________________
www.teamgravityrc.com
Leisure Hours Raceway
Troy Carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 01:35 PM   #309
Tech Adept
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 155
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

On a 40X80 CRC High grip track what rotor would be best for 21.5 USGT mid or high?
dayno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 01:55 PM   #310
Tech Fanatic
 
tbrymer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 980
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dayno View Post
On a 40X80 CRC High grip track what rotor would be best for 21.5 USGT mid or high?
I'd say high
__________________
CRC - C&C Motorsports - SpeedZone
tbrymer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 03:05 PM   #311
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,266
Trader Rating: 20 (100%+)
Default

Agreed. High for sure.
__________________
www.teamgravityrc.com
Leisure Hours Raceway
Troy Carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 04:24 PM   #312
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,250
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I say question everything, specially those heavy duty steel drivetrain parts that increase the rotational mass too much for stock racing... Ideally you want a full carbon fiber drivetrain or close in weight to consider the car's potential achieved for stock, but all I see is just more mod ready tc chassis being produced that bog down the stock 17.5t motors too much, and then racers have to upgrade to lighter parts to be competitive.... Cheers....
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
I've found that the builders who belittle dynos the most perform the worst on them. Once you have your car set up and are competitive, you look for gains in your motors. Given my last main event I lapped the field in the last race, I don't question my car's set up but look to gain on the motor side.
bertrandsv87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 07:07 PM   #313
Tech Champion
 
nexxus's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 8,069
Trader Rating: 302 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy Carter View Post
I don't own a 21.5 of any kind but I've played with plenty of 17.5's and 13.5's from Motiv and others. I've found it best to evaluate each motors power curve as I set it up looking for the best area under the curve. Not specifically looking for RPM, current draw, KV, etc.. Doing so the Motiv motors I've used generally do draw a bit less current than some others mfg motors, and have a lower KV than those motors. But, on the track the Motiv's are just as fast as others and generally have very little fade and run at a good temp.

Generally at the end of a competitive run inside these motors are 150-160°f. During the summer we run on a large outdoor track. Normally I run mod outside but on the rare occasion I've had to run 17.5 the temp will creep up to 180-185° but the motor still runs very strong. And, that temp is common with all brands of 17.5's at this track.

Also, I'm just not a fan of equalizing current draw to compare motors. I want to see the best performance out of each motor and if that happens at different current draws then so be it. I often see people suggest that 6.0a is the sweet spot for a 17.5 motor and I'll agree that it's not a bad setting but it's not a one-size-fits-all kinda deal.

Now, if you don't have a motor checker or any other tools (clearly nexxus, you do) I would take a Motiv right out of the box, set the endbell at 48° and go have fun with it. All of the Motiv's I've checked with the stock S-Mid rotor work very well at that setting and don't fade at the end, when geared well (see wiki).

Bottom line for me is that the track tells the full story but setting the motor to what looks to be it's sweet spot before hitting the track helps you narrow down where you need to be with very little guesswork at the track.
I agree, the idea of blanket amp rating is flawed each motor is different. I set timing and adjust until I see a notable drop off in efficiency

For the M Code 21.5 this is what I had

2431 kv 3.7A
2477kv 3.9A
2612kv 4.8A
2581kv 4.6A
2502kv 4.0A

So for me the optimal timing was the last figure, 30 extra kv was worth 0.1A, to get another 80kv would be 0.6A so the efficiency is dropping off significantly. At that figure it read an "Actual" motor timing of 49 degrees which is also consistent with the Wiki post on these motors.
__________________
A800 / A800X Awesomatix

Don't worry about what I'm doing.
Worry about why you're worried about what I'm doing.

"Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity."

nexxus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 07:17 PM   #314
Tech Champion
 
nexxus's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 8,069
Trader Rating: 302 (100%+)
Default

That all said you can see on the test bench the M Code 21.5 is less powerful than the Fantom FR-1 and Trinity 24K but still above the LRP X20 21.5. These are all motors shimmed properly and set to the timing "sweet spot" as the above post. My next step is to put the motor in the car and compare my lap times.

But at the moment for the 21.5 I don't see it being as fast.
Attached Thumbnails
Motiv RC-21.5dynos.jpg  
__________________
A800 / A800X Awesomatix

Don't worry about what I'm doing.
Worry about why you're worried about what I'm doing.

"Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity."

nexxus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2016, 07:24 PM   #315
Tech Champion
 
nexxus's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 8,069
Trader Rating: 302 (100%+)
Default

Compare it to the 13.5 which is very much on par with the FR-1 and 24K equivalent winds. Once again, same criteria used. After timing set then dyno'd

It was based on this I figured the 21.5 was worth the punt, but so far it's not promising (should have seen that when I had to dremel out the stripped sensor board screw on a new motor lol)
Attached Thumbnails
Motiv RC-13.5-dynos.jpg  
__________________
A800 / A800X Awesomatix

Don't worry about what I'm doing.
Worry about why you're worried about what I'm doing.

"Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity."

nexxus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:48 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net