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R/C Tech Forums Thread Wiki: Xray T4 2016
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'16 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time.

Tips & Tricks:

Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles

How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body
Setting static camber
How to mount weight on your chassis Part1
How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies
Simple troubleshooting guide
How to mount the battery on your chassis
How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson
Utilizing Exponential and RMode on the M12S
How to mount weight on your chassis Part2

Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful tips on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit.

1- Carbon Parts
2-Suspension
3-Solid Axle and Differential
4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain
5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD)
6-Front & Rear Suspension
7-Tweak
8-Anti-Roll Bar
9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL)
10-Bumper & Body
11-Shocks
12-Steering

New Graphite Hubs:
Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options.

Option Parts to consider:
XRA301196 T4 Graphite Upper Deck 1.6mm V2
XRA301226 Foam Bumper – Hard - highly recommend
XRA302165 Composite Front Suspension Arm 2-Hole – Hard
XRA302169 Composite Front Suspension Arm 1-Hole – Graphite
XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar
XRA303169 Composite Rear Suspension Arm 1-Hole – Graphite
XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar
XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel - highly recommend
XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4)
XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2)
XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder
XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2)
XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2)
XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2)
Specific to Asphalt:
XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4* - Graphite (ECS)
XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4* - Graphite (ECS)
XRA308039 Aluminum Progressive Shock System – Set (QTY 2)

Specific to Carpet:

XRA301141 T4 Aluminum Flex Chassis 2mm
XRA302375 Composite C-Hub Right – 6* - Hard ***Modification may be required if they don't have the "ECS" stamp.

XRA302376 Composite C-Hub Left – 6* - Hard ***Modification may be required if they don't have the "ECS" stamp.

XRA303711-O Aluminum Rear Lower Suspension Holder – Front – RF
Recent Setups:
3 July 2016 - Alex Hagberg - European Championship - Asphalt - Mod - 2nd
3 July 2016 - Bruno Coelho - European Championship - Asphalt - Mod - 4th
3 July 2016 - Jan Ratheisky - European Championship - Asphalt - 13.5 - TQ + Win

29 June 2016 - Max Kuenning - Reedy - Asphalt - Mod - 4th
29 June 2016 - Keith Yu - Reedy - Asphalt - 13.5 - TQ + 2nd
29 June 2016 - Eric Anderson - Reedy - Asphalt - 13.5 - 3rd

15 May 2016 - Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd 4 Riccione - Asphalt - Mod - TQ + Win
15 May 2016 - Mattia Collina - ETS Rd 4 Riccione - Asphalt - 13.5 - Win

17 April 2016 - Max Kuenning - MHIC - Carpet - Mod - 4th

10 April 2016 - Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd 3 Wels - Carpet - Mod - 2nd
10 April 2016 - Alex Hagberg - ETS Rd 3 Wels - Carpet - Mod - 4th
10 April 2016 - Jan Ratheisky - ETS Rd 3 Wels - Carpet - 13.5 - TQ + Win

22 March 2016 - Paul LeMieux - Canadian Nats - Carpet - Mod - TQ + Win
22 March 2016 - Luke Pittman - Canadian Nats - Carpet - Mod - 3rd

6 March 2016 - Chris Adams - ROAR Nats - Carpet - Mod - TQ + Win
6 March 2016 - Craig Xavier - ROAR Nats - Carpet - 17.5 - 4th
6 March 2016 - Eric Anderson - ROAR Nats - Carpet - 17.5 - 5th

6 February 2016 - Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd 2 Koblenz - Carpet - Mod - TQ + Win
6 February 2016 - Alex Hagberg - ETS Rd 2 Koblenz - Carpet - Mod - 2nd

31 January 2016 - Alex Hagberg - Snowbirds - Carpet - Mod - TQ + Win
31 January 2016 - Jan Ratheisky - Snowbirds - Carpet - All - See Comments
31 January 2016 - Drew Ellis - Snowbirds - Carpet - 13.5 - 4th
31 January 2016 - Robbie Dodge - Snowbirds - Carpet - 17.5 - Win

13 December 2015 - Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd 1 Hrotovice - Carpet - Mod - 3rd
13 December 2015 - Alex Hagberg - ETS Rd 1 Hrotovice - Carpet - Mod - 4th
13 December 2015 - Olly Jeffries - ETS Rd 1 Hrotovice - Carpet - Mod - 7th
13 December 2015 - Jan Ratheisky - ETS Rd 1 Hrotovice - Carpet - 13.5 - TQ + Win

29 November 2015 - Paul LeMieux - US Indoor Champs - Carpet - Mod - TQ + Win

25 October 2015 - Eric Anderson - Stock Wars - Carpet - 17.5 - 2nd

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Old 12-11-2016, 11:28 PM   #1081
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to compensate for the slow reaction when pointing the bushings down, I do the following:

1. shorten the link on the roll center upper clamp, hole 1 (hole that is most outward from the chassis or hole nearest the tire).
2. shorten the rear wheelbase
3. increase my droop 1 - 2 steps
4. increase my diff oil

I don't do these all at once and it is no particular order, it will always depend on each driver's feel or how you want to drive your car.
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Old 12-12-2016, 01:55 AM   #1082
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
If it were me, I would go 0.5 in to start, and then try 0.5 down if that still hasn't solved the problem

"0.5 in" means the dot on the bushings point up? If so, wouldn't that make the roll center higher, and higher roll center means having lower grip? I plan to start with all neural in front and 0.5 down at the rear.
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Old 12-12-2016, 04:39 AM   #1083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakaru View Post
"0.5 in" means the dot on the bushings point up? If so, wouldn't that make the roll center higher, and higher roll center means having lower grip? I plan to start with all neural in front and 0.5 down at the rear.
"0.5 in" refers to the dots pointing towards the centre of the car.
"0.5 up" is what you refer to.
Hopefully the attached images help

#1 - 0.5 in
#2 - 0.5 up
#3 - 0.5 down
#4 - 0.5 down & in

HiH
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Attached Thumbnails
Xray T4 2016-0.5-.jpg   Xray T4 2016-0.5-up.jpg   Xray T4 2016-0.5-down.jpg   Xray T4 2016-0.5-down-.jpg  
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Old 12-12-2016, 04:56 AM   #1084
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I'm also fighting to find rear end traction on low traction carpet. I have bushing "1 down/in" (maybe it's too much?) and could get it quite good when I find best droop/ride height combination. But still strangely can varies from day to day, tire condition, tire additive etc.

I don't remember exactly what I had in rear diff, but I changed oil to 2000 CST. By feel it felt like it made it softer. And I didn't like it at all. I'm planing to go back to 5k or 7k or even 10k. I see most setup sheets have 5k or more for low traction tracks.

What do you think, is it typical to go higher on diff oil to get rear end more stable?
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Old 12-12-2016, 05:12 AM   #1085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maris View Post
I'm also fighting to find rear end traction on low traction carpet. I have bushing "1 down/in" (maybe it's too much?) and could get it quite good when I find best droop/ride height combination. But still strangely can varies from day to day, tire condition, tire additive etc.

I don't remember exactly what I had in rear diff, but I changed oil to 2000 CST. By feel it felt like it made it softer. And I didn't like it at all. I'm planing to go back to 5k or 7k or even 10k. I see most setup sheets have 5k or more for low traction tracks.

What do you think, is it typical to go higher on diff oil to get rear end more stable?
Thin oil when traction is low. Thick oil will give too much on-power steering. Most of the team-driver setups are useless in actual low traction, as the big events always have traction way higher than any club race.

I've posted a low-grip carpet setup here for club racing:

http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...&setup=t4_2015

You don't need to go crazy on any of the settings, it's just about getting the car balanced. Bodyshell, springs, oils and graphite arms are the important bits for me.
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:51 AM   #1086
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Originally Posted by daleburr View Post
I've posted a low-grip carpet setup here for club racing:

http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...&setup=t4_2015
Thanks for sharing! I'm curious of one parameter in particular: What do you achieve with the antidive (FF 0,5 down/out) on a low traction surface?

I've noticed that some pros use the setting, but i've sort of dismissed it as a high grip trick to limit weight transfer when breaking and thus taking out excessive initial steering.

I guess you get less caster which may be good on low grip... I'm going to try it for sure, but would be great to hear your views as well.
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:23 AM   #1087
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Originally Posted by Bernard B View Post
Thanks for sharing! I'm curious of one parameter in particular: What do you achieve with the antidive (FF 0,5 down/out) on a low traction surface?

I've noticed that some pros use the setting, but i've sort of dismissed it as a high grip trick to limit weight transfer when breaking and thus taking out excessive initial steering.

I guess you get less caster which may be good on low grip... I'm going to try it for sure, but would be great to hear your views as well.
It gives more turn-in steering and more traction on corner exit (two things I usually seem to want in low grip conditions). Anti-dive and reduced castor will both do this, so the combination of the two means you can really feel the effect on track.

Antis don't really change the total weight-transfer much (you'll get a tiny bit more, because the CoG stays higher). But they cause more undamped transfer through the suspension arms, so the car is more sensitive to throttle/brake inputs, and not as good over bumps.
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Last edited by daleburr; 12-12-2016 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 12-12-2016, 10:23 PM   #1088
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So what would you suggest for a combination of a low grip and bumpy track then?. I have tested the 1 down and out FF / 0.5 down and out FR and it has produced my fastest lap time, but I have lost some time through the chicanes/ quick direction changes, what else should I try?
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Old 12-12-2016, 11:08 PM   #1089
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Originally Posted by rcdreamer View Post
So what would you suggest for a combination of a low grip and bumpy track then?. I have tested the 1 down and out FF / 0.5 down and out FR and it has produced my fastest lap time, but I have lost some time through the chicanes/ quick direction changes, what else should I try?
I hate to say it, but the 2017 parts that offer the graphite center piece would help this issue. Aside from that a heavier rear bar would help.
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Old 12-13-2016, 04:53 AM   #1090
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Originally Posted by rcdreamer View Post
So what would you suggest for a combination of a low grip and bumpy track then?. I have tested the 1 down and out FF / 0.5 down and out FR and it has produced my fastest lap time, but I have lost some time through the chicanes/ quick direction changes, what else should I try?
You can try the front-end like it is in the setup I posted, this should give better direction change (narrower track and higher RC). You're already running anti-dive so it'll be no worse over the bumps.

Or various other options to improve direction-change without costing traction:
- Stiffer front springs
- Drop the inner camber links (front and rear)
- Narrow hexes (front and rear)
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Old 12-13-2016, 05:18 AM   #1091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
"0.5 in" refers to the dots pointing towards the centre of the car.
"0.5 up" is what you refer to.
Hopefully the attached images help

#1 - 0.5 in
#2 - 0.5 up
#3 - 0.5 down
#4 - 0.5 down & in

HiH
Ed
Thanks for your advice. I understand that having more toe-in at the rear will help to gain more grip in a low traction track. Is that true?

Also, based on the settings from XRay T4 2016 assembly manual, the default toeing for front is 0 and 3 degree toe-in for rear (if all bushings are centered). Is that true too?

I intend to have 2.5 degree toe-in at my rear and 1 degree toe-out at the front.
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Old 12-14-2016, 03:34 AM   #1092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakaru View Post
Thanks for your advice. I understand that having more toe-in at the rear will help to gain more grip in a low traction track. Is that true?
Yes, I always run 3.2deg on low traction tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakaru View Post
Also, based on the settings from XRay T4 2016 assembly manual, the default toeing for front is 0 and 3 degree toe-in for rear (if all bushings are centered). Is that true too?
The rear is actually 3.2deg on kit inserts.

Front kit settings are 0deg on the arms, but most people run some arm-sweep (e.g. 0.5 out on the FF inserts). And start with 1.0deg toe out at the wheels.
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Old 12-14-2016, 07:36 AM   #1093
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Originally Posted by daleburr View Post
Yes, I always run 3.2deg on low traction tracks.



The rear is actually 3.2deg on kit inserts.

Front kit settings are 0deg on the arms, but most people run some arm-sweep (e.g. 0.5 out on the FF inserts). And start with 1.0deg toe out at the wheels.
Cool... I didn't know the stocks have an additional 0.2 degree. Thanks for the info.

Btw, how much camber (front and rear) do you usually set for low traction outdoor track, assuming I'm going to have 0.5 down bushings for both front and rear?
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Old 12-16-2016, 06:16 AM   #1094
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Originally Posted by daleburr View Post
It gives more turn-in steering and more traction on corner exit (two things I usually seem to want in low grip conditions). Anti-dive and reduced castor will both do this, so the combination of the two means you can really feel the effect on track.

Antis don't really change the total weight-transfer much (you'll get a tiny bit more, because the CoG stays higher). But they cause more undamped transfer through the suspension arms, so the car is more sensitive to throttle/brake inputs, and not as good over bumps.
Thanks again for explaining! I tried the 0.5 anti dive and it did have a very noticeable effect. The car was certainly more precise into corners (especially coming from high speed) and transitioned a bit quicker from left to right. I felt i lost a little bit of steering mid corner and possibly a little bit on power, but not sure on that yet.

Looking for an even nimbler car i tried the graphite in-line flex thing (2 screws from chassis plate with nuts) in addition to the anti dive - This really helped in the chicanes. After 5 mins i felt at "one" with the car, if you know what i mean. I seldom get that feeling, but it's so cool when it happens - Feels like i can hit the same lines over and over at very little risk.

Next thing to try is the 0,5 arm sweep in the setup you posted. I have the opposite (0,5 wider FR than FF) - Copied it from a local fast guy and and haven't gotten around to tinker with that setting just yet. Will the arm sweep stiffen up the suspension initially and go on to provide more steering mid corner/exit? If so it might be just what i'm looking for
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Old 12-16-2016, 12:37 PM   #1095
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Is that anti dive or pro dive?
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