"Stock" TC
03-24-2015, 06:19 PM
#46
Tech Regular
iTrader: (5)
As already covered
Batteries for MOD are cheaper and last twice as long if not more.
ESC the same cost.
Motor cheap and last for years rather than buying the lastest and greatest every few months and blowing them up if you push just a touch too hard.
No need for expensive fans or a fan at all but I used a cheap fan just for insurance.
Whilst the tyre life is reduce, driveline requires more maintenance ie faster wearing spool cups but this was a lot cheaper than the cost of motors, batteries and fans for blinky.
Batteries for MOD are cheaper and last twice as long if not more.
ESC the same cost.
Motor cheap and last for years rather than buying the lastest and greatest every few months and blowing them up if you push just a touch too hard.
No need for expensive fans or a fan at all but I used a cheap fan just for insurance.
Whilst the tyre life is reduce, driveline requires more maintenance ie faster wearing spool cups but this was a lot cheaper than the cost of motors, batteries and fans for blinky.
03-24-2015, 06:33 PM
#47
My opinion: (I agree 17.5 is to fast for the masses..)
21.5 for stock classes (TC and 1/12)
13.5 super stock will likely become more of a class. It's too close to 17.5, but far enough from 21.5. I would like to run 13.5, but there just aren't enough people running it. Mod is to much for me and takes the fun out of racing.
21.5 for stock classes (TC and 1/12)
13.5 super stock will likely become more of a class. It's too close to 17.5, but far enough from 21.5. I would like to run 13.5, but there just aren't enough people running it. Mod is to much for me and takes the fun out of racing.
03-24-2015, 07:01 PM
#48
As already covered
Batteries for MOD are cheaper and last twice as long if not more.
ESC the same cost.
Motor cheap and last for years rather than buying the lastest and greatest every few months and blowing them up if you push just a touch too hard.
No need for expensive fans or a fan at all but I used a cheap fan just for insurance.
Whilst the tyre life is reduce, driveline requires more maintenance ie faster wearing spool cups but this was a lot cheaper than the cost of motors, batteries and fans for blinky.
Batteries for MOD are cheaper and last twice as long if not more.
ESC the same cost.
Motor cheap and last for years rather than buying the lastest and greatest every few months and blowing them up if you push just a touch too hard.
No need for expensive fans or a fan at all but I used a cheap fan just for insurance.
Whilst the tyre life is reduce, driveline requires more maintenance ie faster wearing spool cups but this was a lot cheaper than the cost of motors, batteries and fans for blinky.
My batteries didn't last any longer and puffed real quick because they were being pushed harder. Since I have moved back to stock my LRP batteries have lasted 8 months without issue and puffing, Just waiting for the new ones to come out next month then I will get 3 more to last another 8-12 months.
I didn't blow up motors in Mod, but I haven't done that in Stock either, I have only purchased 3 motors in 1 and a half years, the D3.5 lasted the whole time without issue before being banned.
Expensive fans, not really, in the scheme of things, I think a paid $90 to get a few R1 fans shipped over,
In Mod I was using more tyres, and breaking/wearing out more parts. I simply got sick of throwing wads of cash at a car to keep it running. It might be different since I have changed brands, but at the time I didn't know any better.
In stock, the Yokomo doesn't really wear any parts out I replace the belts before a big meeting but I choose to use the softer stock belts,
I am sure if your really good at mod you wont wear out/break as much stuff, but getting there wore me out, and 13.5 has been more fun racing others at about the same speed and quick enough to keep me entertained.
03-24-2015, 07:14 PM
#49
My opinion: (I agree 17.5 is to fast for the masses..)
21.5 for stock classes (TC and 1/12)
13.5 super stock will likely become more of a class. It's too close to 17.5, but far enough from 21.5. I would like to run 13.5, but there just aren't enough people running it. Mod is to much for me and takes the fun out of racing.
21.5 for stock classes (TC and 1/12)
13.5 super stock will likely become more of a class. It's too close to 17.5, but far enough from 21.5. I would like to run 13.5, but there just aren't enough people running it. Mod is to much for me and takes the fun out of racing.
As the great warrior poet Lil Jon once said: 'Turn down for what?'
03-24-2015, 07:34 PM
#50
I have 2 boys that I plan on starting racing and my plan is to get with the RD and see if he will let them run a 21.5 1/12. I think the 1/12 cars require more control, but the lower speed will make them have to learn setup and how to keep corner speed.
03-24-2015, 08:13 PM
#51
Tech Regular
iTrader: (5)
My batteries didn't last any longer and puffed real quick because they were being pushed harder. Since I have moved back to stock my LRP batteries have lasted 8 months without issue and puffing, Just waiting for the new ones to come out next month then I will get 3 more to last another 8-12 months.
I didn't blow up motors in Mod, but I haven't done that in Stock either, I have only purchased 3 motors in 1 and a half years, the D3.5 lasted the whole time without issue before being banned.
Expensive fans, not really, in the scheme of things, I think a paid $90 to get a few R1 fans shipped over,
In Mod I was using more tyres, and breaking/wearing out more parts. I simply got sick of throwing wads of cash at a car to keep it running. It might be different since I have changed brands, but at the time I didn't know any better.
In stock, the Yokomo doesn't really wear any parts out I replace the belts before a big meeting but I choose to use the softer stock belts,
I am sure if your really good at mod you wont wear out/break as much stuff, but getting there wore me out, and 13.5 has been more fun racing others at about the same speed and quick enough to keep me entertained.
I didn't blow up motors in Mod, but I haven't done that in Stock either, I have only purchased 3 motors in 1 and a half years, the D3.5 lasted the whole time without issue before being banned.
Expensive fans, not really, in the scheme of things, I think a paid $90 to get a few R1 fans shipped over,
In Mod I was using more tyres, and breaking/wearing out more parts. I simply got sick of throwing wads of cash at a car to keep it running. It might be different since I have changed brands, but at the time I didn't know any better.
In stock, the Yokomo doesn't really wear any parts out I replace the belts before a big meeting but I choose to use the softer stock belts,
I am sure if your really good at mod you wont wear out/break as much stuff, but getting there wore me out, and 13.5 has been more fun racing others at about the same speed and quick enough to keep me entertained.
Re your batts, if they puffed in MOD they were most likely poor in 13.5T as well. I have 600 cycles plus out of my IPs which are still awesome in MOD no puffing but are slow in 13.5T blinky. My new IP lipo which has about 60 cycles has a clear advantage in 13.5T.
The D3.5 certainly was a good thing for the average racer in blinky classes. Didn't run as hot and was more resistant to melting the stator.
To some extent the D3.5 became an unofficial control motor overnight and put a pause on motor wars.
03-24-2015, 08:17 PM
#52
It's real simple...divide the classes
21.5 Novice Class
17.5 Sportsman Stock Class [no sponsor driver]
13.5 Expert Stock Class
Mod Class [Expert only]
Remember the only way to get better is to move
up in class as your driving skills are better.
That is how in was in the 90's when I started racing, it
was exciting to get bumped up to a better class.
21.5 Novice Class
17.5 Sportsman Stock Class [no sponsor driver]
13.5 Expert Stock Class
Mod Class [Expert only]
Remember the only way to get better is to move
up in class as your driving skills are better.
That is how in was in the 90's when I started racing, it
was exciting to get bumped up to a better class.
03-24-2015, 08:40 PM
#53
Tech Regular
iTrader: (28)
I have recently seen some fairly quick 21.5 and 25.5 cars. So I wonder if there is a slower motor than 25.5?
If not, is there a company willing to develop one?
Because I am pretty sure within a year, one of you will make a 25.5 as fast as today's 17.5.
I'd like to be ahead of the slow curve with... say a 30.5.
If not, is there a company willing to develop one?
Because I am pretty sure within a year, one of you will make a 25.5 as fast as today's 17.5.
I'd like to be ahead of the slow curve with... say a 30.5.
03-24-2015, 08:45 PM
#54
It's real simple...divide the classes
21.5 Novice Class
17.5 Sportsman Stock Class [no sponsor driver]
13.5 Expert Stock Class
Mod Class [Expert only]
Remember the only way to get better is to move
up in class as your driving skills are better.
That is how in was in the 90's when I started racing, it
was exciting to get bumped up to a better class.
21.5 Novice Class
17.5 Sportsman Stock Class [no sponsor driver]
13.5 Expert Stock Class
Mod Class [Expert only]
Remember the only way to get better is to move
up in class as your driving skills are better.
That is how in was in the 90's when I started racing, it
was exciting to get bumped up to a better class.
All 21.5 (Beginner/Intermediate stock) and 17.5 (Advanced Stock) classes with zero sponsors.
13.5 is opened to any sponsored driver and should be considered Expert Stock.
03-24-2015, 08:55 PM
#55
Tech Regular
iTrader: (5)
I have recently seen some fairly quick 21.5 and 25.5 cars. So I wonder if there is a slower motor than 25.5?
If not, is there a company willing to develop one?
Because I am pretty sure within a year, one of you will make a 25.5 as fast as today's 17.5.
I'd like to be ahead of the slow curve with... say a 30.5.
If not, is there a company willing to develop one?
Because I am pretty sure within a year, one of you will make a 25.5 as fast as today's 17.5.
I'd like to be ahead of the slow curve with... say a 30.5.
03-24-2015, 09:06 PM
#57
Tech Regular
iTrader: (28)
I guess I could get around the weight issue, but my car is so light already I will need to use tungsten. My tungsten source is expensive though at more than $1 per gram.
Who knew being slow was so expensive.
Just the price of being the fastest person into the slowest class!
03-24-2015, 09:16 PM
#58
I think the speed is fine. It's the infield speed that is too fast. Slower motor won't do much but make people and manufactures spend money to find the speed they have with a lower turn motor.
I moved to the Usgt class because the tire and body rules. The speed is only slightly slower on the straights compared to 17.5 but the infield speed is down do to the lack of down force(from the non bubble bodies) and lack of traction from the treaded tires.
I get 8 races out of my $24 Usgt ride tires before they start to lose lap times.
Just my point of view from a weekend racer/hobbiest.
I moved to the Usgt class because the tire and body rules. The speed is only slightly slower on the straights compared to 17.5 but the infield speed is down do to the lack of down force(from the non bubble bodies) and lack of traction from the treaded tires.
I get 8 races out of my $24 Usgt ride tires before they start to lose lap times.
Just my point of view from a weekend racer/hobbiest.
03-24-2015, 09:22 PM
#59
USVTA and USGT are not necessarily beginner classes. Slower does not mean easier. In fact it takes more critical driving techniques and set up to be truely competative in these classes. In addition not everyone likes the look or the feel of these classes. Why should we tell someone new that wants to run a TC that they should just get a VTA instead to learn on. The only restriction on a true novice class should be motor and battery size (volts not mah). Other than that level them run whatever body/tires they want. When there times become consistent and/or they begin winning every time they run, the RD bumps them out of novice.
Speaking as a novice driver (and from experience) there's not huge difference in speed from 21.5 to 17.5. I like the way the cars behave in 17.5; they're more planted and the setups are far simpler in 17.5 then they are in USGT and VTA because the way the tires function (The is especially an issue in VTA).
I am being actively discouraged by some experienced drivers; told to put away the 17.5 car until I get better at USGT. To me the skills are different and mastering USGT will not make me an competent 17.5 driver and vice versa.
The only thing that's made a difference becoming semi-successful in USGT (middle A qualifiers and finishes) has been putting in real wheel time in practice and in race conditions as possible, my using pivot heads to review past runs and racing line coaching by experienced racers.
I really *hate* these threads which is why I'm posting in this one to say this: for someone starting out the only thing that matters is mentorship that goes past car setup. Yes it's vital that the car and it's radio are setup properly but slowing the cars does little help the learning curve. (Also for reasons I don't entirely understand I broke way more parts in VTA then in USGT or 17.5 per unit of time spent on the track)
The difference between being in last place for years vs. working your way up the pack in months is somebody way faster then you teaching you how they drive fast then putting in the practice to be consistant and preserve the car.
I believe that the motor speed isn't the issue (and never will be). Mostly anyone can be tough to race a 17.5 car. The guy all alone trying to understand how drive lines in a slow car VTA all by himself is in a much, much more difficult position then novice 17.5 racer who is getting coached by the local fast guys.
Coaches help teach players how to play team sports. We have lessons to learn how to play instruments. Even aspiring RC airplane and heli pilots have lessons and shared control systems and hands on instruction. The idea we don't have some way to teach or place to learn competitive RC on-road car racing other then trial and error is just *NUTS*!
Last edited by @Art_Mighty; 03-24-2015 at 10:19 PM.
03-24-2015, 09:38 PM
#60
This...
Speaking as a novice driver (and from) experience there's not huge difference in speed from 21.5 to 17.5. I like the way the cars behave in 17.5; they're more planted and the setups are far simpler in 17.5 then they are in USGT and VTA because the way the tires function (The is especially an issue in VTA).
I am being actively discouraged by some experienced drivers; told to put away the 17.5 car until I get better at USGT. To me the skills are different and mastering USGT will not make me an competent 17.5 driver and vice versa.
The only thing that's made a difference becoming semi-successful in USGT (middle A qualifiers and finishes) has been putting as in real wheel time in practice and in race conditions as possible, my using pivot heads to review past runs and racing line coaching by experienced racers.
I really *hate* these threads which is why I'm posting in this one to say this: for someone starting out the only thing that matters is mentorship that goes past car setup. Yes it's vital that the car and it's radio are setup properly but slowing the cars does little help the learning curve. (Also for reasons I don't entirely understand i broke way more parts in VTA then in USGT or 17.5 per unit of time spent on the track)
The difference between being in last place for years vs. working your way up the pack in months is somebody way faster then you teaching you how they drive fast then putting in the practice to be consistant and preserve the car.
I believe that the motor speed isn't the issue (and never will be). Mostly anyone can be tough to race a 17.5 car. The guy all alone trying to understand how drive lines in a slow car VTA all by himself is in a much, much more difficult position the novice 17.5 racer who is getting coached by the local fast guys.
Coaches help teach players how to play team sports. We have lessions to learn how to play instruments. Even aspiring RC airplane and heli pilots have lessons and shared control systems and hands on instruction. The idea we don't have some way to teach or place to learn competitive RC on-road car racing other then trial and error is just *NUTS*!
Speaking as a novice driver (and from) experience there's not huge difference in speed from 21.5 to 17.5. I like the way the cars behave in 17.5; they're more planted and the setups are far simpler in 17.5 then they are in USGT and VTA because the way the tires function (The is especially an issue in VTA).
I am being actively discouraged by some experienced drivers; told to put away the 17.5 car until I get better at USGT. To me the skills are different and mastering USGT will not make me an competent 17.5 driver and vice versa.
The only thing that's made a difference becoming semi-successful in USGT (middle A qualifiers and finishes) has been putting as in real wheel time in practice and in race conditions as possible, my using pivot heads to review past runs and racing line coaching by experienced racers.
I really *hate* these threads which is why I'm posting in this one to say this: for someone starting out the only thing that matters is mentorship that goes past car setup. Yes it's vital that the car and it's radio are setup properly but slowing the cars does little help the learning curve. (Also for reasons I don't entirely understand i broke way more parts in VTA then in USGT or 17.5 per unit of time spent on the track)
The difference between being in last place for years vs. working your way up the pack in months is somebody way faster then you teaching you how they drive fast then putting in the practice to be consistant and preserve the car.
I believe that the motor speed isn't the issue (and never will be). Mostly anyone can be tough to race a 17.5 car. The guy all alone trying to understand how drive lines in a slow car VTA all by himself is in a much, much more difficult position the novice 17.5 racer who is getting coached by the local fast guys.
Coaches help teach players how to play team sports. We have lessions to learn how to play instruments. Even aspiring RC airplane and heli pilots have lessons and shared control systems and hands on instruction. The idea we don't have some way to teach or place to learn competitive RC on-road car racing other then trial and error is just *NUTS*!
Good dialogue going so far. I know change doesn't happen over night but it never happens if it isn't talked about.
