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Old 03-20-2017, 06:00 PM   #976
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Sometimes we get a few more of the top guys but mostly David, Ollie and Luke. You learn how to get out the way

Here is my take on the not quite short shock. Less of an angle that Brian's as I used the long standoff but without a spacer on top. Also used the forward hole on the pod. Will see how it goes, I can switch between this and the original in a minute or two. Also means I can run a rollover mast.

You have great crew to race with. Be the Greyhound, chase that rabbit!

Focus up on the elevation of the forward shock ball stud. The conclusion I have drawn is: lower = more aggressive off power steering. higher = more forgiving steering off power. Also, moving the forward shock post: back = more suitable for stock power, forward = more suitable for mod power. (theres far more to this, but basic understanding is best first and foremost).

Also check your droop with that shock. In my opinion, the shock shaft is either too short or the lower spring perch sits too deep on the shaft. The result is you have to run your spring adjuster all the way up against the cap and you still may not get your droop/ride height correct. 2 ways to check your droop: at the front of the rear lower plate in the form of "lift over ride height" or set the chassis on blocks and measure at the rear plate. For years, I've used the chassis on blocks method. My default number is -1.5mm. I am of the belief that as I shorten the shock or go to less droop (such as -1.0), the car will get more free on throttle and handle more poorly on a bumpy track. If I lengthen the shock or go towards -2.0, the car will push more on throttle and improve handling over bumps. The lift over ride height is another straight forward method. Suppose your ride height is 3.5mm throughout the car. Adjust your shock length until you get 4.7mm at the front of the rear plate when you lift up at the rear shock ball stud (or that is 1.2mm of lift). 1.2mm is my default lift number and is nearly equal to -1.5mm on blocks. The same logic applies with lift as on blocks; 1.0 lift = more free, 1.4 lift = more on push/traction.

I have machined the perches down on my shocks so that my adjuster is not all the way against the top of the shock body. For the rest of you without a lathe, just bottom out the shock shaft in the perch and pull it back out about a 1/2mm and tighten the set screw. I use Loctite. Then adjust your shock length to achieve your correct droop.

Don't forget, every time your change the shock elevations, it changes your droop.

Do play with your side spring tension. But do use "touching" as your default. Depending on your tracks grip level, if you need a little more steering, preload just a little. Need less steering or if the car pitches, use less tension or float. Right now, a 1/4 turn away from touching is my maximum range. So this is a sensitive adjustment.

Go catch that rabbit!
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:07 PM   #977
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What are you guys using to shorten the shock on the 2017 car so the middle hole for the front shock standoff can be used?
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:26 AM   #978
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Thanks again Brian I am lucky to be around those guys so often. Part of the reason I race 12th to be honest.

Totally understood on those points. My experience with the long shock was that anymore than 0.8mm-1mm on our tracks led to not enough on power for my driving style. I am at the extent of the spring collar but think I had less than 1mm of droop in that picture. I like to double check it with the wheels off on my setup board and put a 1mm shim under the rear of the main chassis.

Will definitely play with the front elevation, I know Ollie likes his to be steeply angled down and describes anything else as old school. I can be a little ham fisted coming off the throttle to turn in and am no stranger to hitting the inside of the corner. It is something I am working on, trying to come off less and be more consistent with where I turn in and where I let off the throttle.

Very much appreciate you taking the time to help.

2kidsrogers I've used turnbuckle ball ends that I had laying around, I needed to take about 1mm off of one of them to get the length needed.
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Old 03-21-2017, 05:47 PM   #979
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What are you guys using to shorten the shock on the 2017 car so the middle hole for the front shock standoff can be used?
not sure i get the question...

the extension on the shock is removed and the shock can go into the middle hole on the chassis.

to lower the front of the shock -- there are a ton of options. my favorite is standoffs from mcmaster as they are super cheap
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Old 03-21-2017, 07:16 PM   #980
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not sure i get the question...

the extension on the shock is removed and the shock can go into the middle hole on the chassis.

to lower the front of the shock -- there are a ton of options. my favorite is standoffs from mcmaster as they are super cheap
Can use the Roche 13 or 16mm ones
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:17 PM   #981
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Can use the Roche 13 or 16mm ones
That will work too
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:29 PM   #982
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Mike, any idea when car will be back in stock ?
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:42 AM   #983
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Just got home from holidays in Ireland, and was so happy to see my new 1/12 scale aluminum chassis and rear lower pod plate in the pile of mail. Can't wait to switch it over and get it back on the track!!
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:40 AM   #984
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Within the side spring ratings, where do the Roche Side Springs fit as compared to the Associated or others?. Does anyone have a chart?

I have the AE ones rated here...
AE Black 3.75
AE Green 4.38
AE Silver 5.00
AE Blue 5.63
AE Gold 6.25
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:44 AM   #985
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Originally Posted by dr_hfuhuhurr View Post
Within the side spring ratings, where do the Roche Side Springs fit as compared to the Associated or others?. Does anyone have a chart?

I have the AE ones rated here...
AE Black 3.75
AE Green 4.38
AE Silver 5.00
AE Blue 5.63
AE Gold 6.25
http://site.petitrc.com/reglages/roche/setuprapidef1/F1_AlexanderStocker_SideSpringTip20170315/
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:11 AM   #986
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Originally Posted by dr_hfuhuhurr View Post
Within the side spring ratings, where do the Roche Side Springs fit as compared to the Associated or others?. Does anyone have a chart?

I have the AE ones rated here...
AE Black 3.75
AE Green 4.38
AE Silver 5.00
AE Blue 5.63
AE Gold 6.25
Not sure about Roche yellow and pink off the top of my head, but the Roche white sidesprings are very very similar to AE Silver

-Korey
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:26 AM   #987
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I'm fairly new to 1/12th scale and was wondering what exactly changes to how the car drives, when changing the shock length, mounting location and height of mounting position. Haven't played around with much here. Just springs and droop settings. I usually make adjustments to side springs and damper lube mostly. Thanks.
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Old 03-23-2017, 11:32 AM   #988
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This isn't really fit for human consumption, but I did take the time to measure side springs to rate them. I wanted to debunk whether springs were progressive or linear in their compression. Turns out that conical and cyndrical (sp) have a linear rate. Unless you own a progressively wound spring, then you'd get a progressive rate. This chart shows visually how the springs I had in stock rate against each other.
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Roche Rapide P12 1/12 Competition Car Kit-img_2842.jpg  
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Last edited by Slapmaster6000; 03-24-2017 at 12:26 AM.
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:03 PM   #989
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Originally Posted by Slapmaster6000 View Post
This isn't really fit for human consumption, but I did take the time to measure side springs to rate them. I wanted to debunk whether springs were progressive or linear in their compression. Turns out that conical and cydrical (sp) have a linear rate. Unless you own a progressively wound spring, then you'd get a progressive rate. This chart shows visually how the springs I had in stock rate against each other.
The most interesting thing here I see is how close so many springs are yet many of us swap between them looking for that perfect feel. Also interesting how far apart the CRC 45 and CRC 50 springs actually are.
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:28 PM   #990
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Bodine... You are a mad scientist. Thank you!!
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