196LikesRoche Rapide P12 1/12 Competition Car Kit
03-12-2017, 07:59 PM
#946
I get drastically different results using a tweak station and the coin method. Lately I've been leaving the tweak station in my pit bag.
I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. What is the problem we are really trying to solve by setting the tweak at the rear of the car? Are we simply trying to balance an imbalance in the pod or are we trying to balance an imbalance of the entire car, meaning are we trying to compensate with the tweak springs for an issue that we might have at the front of the car like a compressed spring, slightly differing amounts of droop or even ride height differences?
My methodology has always been:
1. Find chassis center points front and rear and ensure equal left and right front and left and right rear tire spacing with calipers. Shim as needed to ensure equal distance from center point to inside edge of wheels on both sides of car.
2. Install electronics and ensure that the car balances side-to-side via balance buttons.
3. Make sure you have a set of freshly trued and even tires and install rear tires. Remove rear damper tubes and make sure tweak screws are backed out all the way
4. Leave front tires off and use two stepped ride height gauges, one under each front kingpin set at the same height, usually around 3mm. Compress the front springs and let the car settle. With your eyes check to see that you have even and desirable droop on the kingpins. I shoot for ~.5mm typically. Shim kingpins as necessary.
5. Install freshly trued front tires. Run both tweak screws down until just touching the plate. Use the coin method to set rear tweak.
I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately. What is the problem we are really trying to solve by setting the tweak at the rear of the car? Are we simply trying to balance an imbalance in the pod or are we trying to balance an imbalance of the entire car, meaning are we trying to compensate with the tweak springs for an issue that we might have at the front of the car like a compressed spring, slightly differing amounts of droop or even ride height differences?
My methodology has always been:
1. Find chassis center points front and rear and ensure equal left and right front and left and right rear tire spacing with calipers. Shim as needed to ensure equal distance from center point to inside edge of wheels on both sides of car.
2. Install electronics and ensure that the car balances side-to-side via balance buttons.
3. Make sure you have a set of freshly trued and even tires and install rear tires. Remove rear damper tubes and make sure tweak screws are backed out all the way
4. Leave front tires off and use two stepped ride height gauges, one under each front kingpin set at the same height, usually around 3mm. Compress the front springs and let the car settle. With your eyes check to see that you have even and desirable droop on the kingpins. I shoot for ~.5mm typically. Shim kingpins as necessary.
5. Install freshly trued front tires. Run both tweak screws down until just touching the plate. Use the coin method to set rear tweak.
This is a pretty solid technique for the coin method. Checking front droop for spring collapse is the key to success for coin or tweak station.
For the guys that are not getting reliable results on their tweak boards, I suggest this: be sure the damper tubes are popped off, that side links are free (meaning the football is not jammed), and that the car is centered on the board. Get your car to bubble out. Then pick it up and switch ends. If it's off, the rear pod is not balanced. If its good, well, race it!
Someone asked earlier, do we balance the pod. I do. Not all motors are designed the same. The stators can be in different places in the can resulting in different balance. Take a 3.5 vs a 4.0, the collection ring is at different ends of the motor requiring the stator be shifted to one end. That is a large heavy piece of steel moving several mm's. Spec motors are built different too. I have been guilty of balancing the pod with a specific motor, machining a spacer specifically for that motor just to get the pod to balance. Then I've balanced the forward chassis (w/o pod) to get all the electronics side to side correct. Then I marry the pod to the chassis and recheck side to side again. The tricky part is to compensate for wire. Then when I place the car back on the tweak station, whether I place the front or the rear on the stationary bar, it will bubble out perfect every time.
Someone asked me just last night; would write out a set up list. It's been done so many times by various drivers. We all learn our own systems and tend to stick with it like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic, it's hard for us to change. Every time I run a car, I give a quick visual and fondle. Here is a quick list of what I do in no particular order
Inspect the tires for peel
Measure the fronts to see if they need to be swapped.
Look at the bottom nose of the chassis to see if it's dragging.
Check ride height.
Check side links are free.
If you smacked something, check the body for damage.
Measure rear tires to see if your roll out is drifting.
Check camber
Check front droop (spring collapse).
All of these things can be done very quickly and often ensure you are ready for your next run without any real surprises. I see guys with big chunks blown off the wheels or lifting away. Front spring crushed. Or they got plowed from behind jamming the football. Or the front knuckle is so sloppy they have 3* of variable camber. Success in 12th scale is the little things.
Brian
03-13-2017, 09:23 AM
#947
Brian's list is great. My shorter list is-
1. Ensure spring collapse hasn't occurred (can be done many ways... Using fresh tires or setup gauge to get a consistent wheel height is key)
2. Tweak the car
Many people will account for the huge # of pre-race blow outs I had last weekend at Roar nats... And this car is really solid. It can take a fair amount of abuse on the track and get you thru the run...
1. Ensure spring collapse hasn't occurred (can be done many ways... Using fresh tires or setup gauge to get a consistent wheel height is key)
2. Tweak the car
Many people will account for the huge # of pre-race blow outs I had last weekend at Roar nats... And this car is really solid. It can take a fair amount of abuse on the track and get you thru the run...
03-13-2017, 09:29 AM
#948
Congrats to Donny on his solid 2nd place at ROAR Nats... He had some back luck in A1 while leading... But all in all, a decent run for someone who was so deeply involved in hosting the race too.
Great push up the grid by Sal Amato in stock 1/12 too.
This Nats was the first I tried to run two pan cars.. and made two A-mains. It was a struggle keep tires and everything else going to run triple As. I appreciate all of the Roche and Amtx drivers who helped keep my cars rolling on Sunday...
Great push up the grid by Sal Amato in stock 1/12 too.
This Nats was the first I tried to run two pan cars.. and made two A-mains. It was a struggle keep tires and everything else going to run triple As. I appreciate all of the Roche and Amtx drivers who helped keep my cars rolling on Sunday...
03-16-2017, 11:13 AM
#950
Probably a stupid question but will the pod from the 17 fit onto the 16 car? Looking to make it so i can run smaller tires. If not I will probably go the machining route with the 2016 bulkheads.
03-16-2017, 11:18 AM
#951
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Yes you can all parts are interchangeable Between all the P12's
Hope this helps
03-16-2017, 06:57 PM
#953
Many set up sheets, carpet and asphalt are available here http://site.petitrc.com/reglages/roc...RapideP12.html
03-16-2017, 07:00 PM
#954
Where would you go to get rear bulkheads machined?
I don't know where to go to get small parts machined
I love my 2016 but also want to run smaller tires in the rear
03-16-2017, 07:03 PM
#956
Many set up sheets, carpet and asphalt are available here http://site.petitrc.com/reglages/roc...RapideP12.html
Roche RC USA: Set-up Sheets
click on the
"
Browse All Setups on Google Drive By Date
"
and find the 2017-01, 2017-02 and 2017-03 folders
03-16-2017, 07:03 PM
#957
I don't think the rear pod plate and rear bulkheads can be switched from 2017 to 2016.
Maybe someone that owns both cars can help us out and verify this
03-17-2017, 06:43 AM
#958
03-17-2017, 11:13 AM
#960
tekin112000
Yes I am in Indiana, USA.
I still have yet to look for someone who can machine them down for me. I will be doing some searching this weekend to try and see who could do it. If I find a good source I will post here for others that want the same thing done.
Yes I am in Indiana, USA.
I still have yet to look for someone who can machine them down for me. I will be doing some searching this weekend to try and see who could do it. If I find a good source I will post here for others that want the same thing done.