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Old 11-27-2014, 05:56 AM   #46
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If you are pure to the ROAR rule it isn't (even though they may market it as such). The motors were submitted with a specific stator and rotor as per their part numbers 1603T and 1603R. There are other part numbers that they sell as combos with different rotors and stators like the 1603RM and the 1603TM but those motors are not on the approval list. It should be noted that the tuning rotors from Trinity are only approved for the Duo 1-2-3 (not the 3.5) and the Revtech series. This is per the ROAR list. Now I don't know of a single race outside of a ROAR event that limits the rotors as listed but technically they can.
Again this is the pure ROAR rule and I have discussed this with a ROAR rep and from that conversation I understand what I have stated to be true.

This ought to stir the pot.
To stir the pot more, I can't even find the 21.5 Kill Shot on the Roar Approved Motor list.

However the D4 21.5 motor was approved by ROAR in two versions one with the stock unspecified (but presumably the 12.3mm broad band) rotor and the maxzilla version with the tuning 12.5mm high torque rotor. So there is still the tuning rotor issue where I can buy a motor at my local hobby shop with a tuning rotor installed and its is legal (both ROAR and USGT), but if I install the same tuning rotor it isn't legal for USGT; which in my opinion is absurd.

My ax to grind here is that I'm trying to nudge our racing organizations here in Texas towards the USVTA rules for USGT wherever possible, and it really helps if those rules are rational and make sense; the no tuning rotor rule so far doesn't make sense to me!
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Old 11-27-2014, 09:36 AM   #47
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John the Killshot 21.5 is legal it is in the ROAR Approval forum it is the approval spot for almost a the new motors will be located. That spot has pictures of the motor and all the legal parts inside it.
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To stir the pot more, I can't even find the 21.5 Kill Shot on the Roar Approved Motor list.

However the D4 21.5 motor was approved by ROAR in two versions one with the stock unspecified (but presumably the 12.3mm broad band) rotor and the maxzilla version with the tuning 12.5mm high torque rotor. So there is still the tuning rotor issue where I can buy a motor at my local hobby shop with a tuning rotor installed and its is legal (both ROAR and USGT), but if I install the same tuning rotor it isn't legal for USGT; which in my opinion is absurd.

My ax to grind here is that I'm trying to nudge our racing organizations here in Texas towards the USVTA rules for USGT wherever possible, and it really helps if those rules are rational and make sense; the no tuning rotor rule so far doesn't make sense to me!
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Old 11-27-2014, 11:38 AM   #48
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John the Killshot 21.5 is legal it is in the ROAR Approval forum it is the approval spot for almost a the new motors will be located. That spot has pictures of the motor and all the legal parts inside it.
Thanks Too bad the ROAR approved motor list isn't complete.
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Old 11-27-2014, 12:30 PM   #49
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As far as I know the roar list is complete . Batman has a book he compiled of all the roar approached motors .... The list is a few pages worth . And this was at the southern nationals cause I noticed the associated x-12(I think, I know it was one of them from associated) was not on the list (associated never sent one in)
Iu self don't care about the tuning rotor junk cause almost every motor these days comes with a 12.5 rotor ... Orca/trac-star (all I run ) and I'm sure if this becomes a issue motor motor manufactures will spec theirs with a 12.5 if they already don't come with one ...
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Old 11-27-2014, 12:55 PM   #50
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...almost every motor these days comes with a 12.5 rotor ... Orca/trac-star (all I run ) and I'm sure if this becomes a issue motor motor manufactures will spec theirs with a 12.5 if they already don't come with one ...
You're right, so the USGT rotor rule really makes no sense. It just penalizes the people who buy a motor that doesn't come with a 12.5mm HT rotor. They aren't allowed to just put one in later on. They would have to buy a whole new motor. Also, lets say you've been running the same motor for a while and it's gotten hot a few too many times and is noticeably slower because the rotor has lost some magnetism. Often just changing to a fresh rotor can make an old sluggish motor perform as good as new again. This rule says you can't do that. You would have to buy a new motor if you want to follow the rules to the letter. Even though there would be absolutely no way to determine that you changed it. It's just a rule that makes zero sense.
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Old 11-27-2014, 01:39 PM   #51
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Im curious as to whats wrong with buying a "normal" 21.5 from you hobby shop and putting it in your cool looking GT car and racing with your friends.

did I miss something?...all the people always looking for some loophole in the rules shouldnt be here....you are in the wrong class and wrong thread. I dont understand whats the issue with having fun in the slower classes.

Let me be clear..yes I am sponsored and only care to run USVTA and USGT, and I run the classes cause they are fun and the cars look good. But does that mean I should have AE/Reedy send me 20 motors to see which one is best?...or contact Charlie and ask the same...or batteries?...heck no...I get the same stuff that anybody else can get.

If you are here on this thread or the USVTA thread...how about you simply comply with the rules and help promote these type classes to help our hobby grow. The slower classes bring in the new racers...help them by following the rules and help them build their driving skills and setup skills.

my 6 years worth of being Pro-USVTA/USGT/RCGT
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The only problem is that it is not enforceable.
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Old 11-28-2014, 04:45 AM   #52
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Thanks Too bad the ROAR approved motor list isn't complete.
It is a pain that you have to check at two spots. I also mentioned to the ROAR rep that I have contact with that they need to provide more info on the approved parts in the motor. ie: the rotor specs for one.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:00 AM   #53
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IMO reading all this about the tuning rotors and so on I think you guys are putting too much weight on the rotors. If the motor is slow its slow...a rotor is not going to help enough to overcome that fact. Like stated most newer motors are coming with 12.5 rotors out of the box. If your down on power to another motor changing the rotor in your brand of motor will not help over come this.... its part of the game when racing "spec" classes. We can remove the tuning rotor rule but remeber that this rule was put in place to help racers from being well racers and buying all these tuning rotors and trying to see which one is better. See what a fast motor is and use it....show up race and have fun. Im not a fan of this rule as its hard to enforce but I understand the reason that its there and I support that. If we need to make a change so everyone can feel better and not think twice about someone using a "tuning" rotor then maybe we can take a look at it....but it looks like only a few people so far seem to have an issue with it.

Also if you got your motor hot enough to wear out the rotor you will also need to get a new stator too so you might as well buy a new motor. Adding a new rotor to a old motor is like using a band-aid over over a bullet hole.

If you want my list of motors that I would look into they go like this in order of power.

1...Trackstar
2...ShurrSpeed and Orca
3...Reedy and R1
4...Novak
5...Anything Trinity based
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Old 11-28-2014, 10:10 AM   #54
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Kevin:
The Trinity motors other than the Maxzillas come with 12.3 mid-range rotors. I think Ernie wants people to pony up for the more expensive motor or a rotor.
Your motor list is very good for T/C and USGT. The ShurSpeed and Trackstar motors both come with monster torque rotors and work well in the heavier cars. The new Team Scream motors fare very well also but they aren't on your list. They are very popular locally.
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Old 11-28-2014, 11:53 AM   #55
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Kevin:
The Trinity motors other than the Maxzillas come with 12.3 mid-range rotors. I think Ernie wants people to pony up for the more expensive motor or a rotor.
Your motor list is very good for T/C and USGT. The ShurSpeed and Trackstar motors both come with monster torque rotors and work well in the heavier cars. The new Team Scream motors far very well also but they aren't on your list. They are very popular locally.
Rotors wont help any of the trinity motors that I have seen...unless you get a hand built motor or short stack that somehow showed up in your motor from the "factory". I might need to give a Team Scream motor a try and see.
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:45 AM   #56
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John:
I was wrong about the 1603T motor as being approved with the HT 12.5 rotor. It was not, it uses the 12.3 mid range rotor ans as such is only legal with that rotor (to the letter of the ROAR rules). The only difference between the 1603T and the 1603R is the stator. I believe Trinity could request that the tuning rotor series be approved for the KillShot series and the D4 series as well but I don't see that this approval has been done.
The D4 was approved with both the standard and High torque (TEP1112 "maxzilla") rotors. BTW what is the point of an OEM having ROAR approved spec Tuning rotors, if it is Not ROAR Legal to use them in their spec motors that were approved without the tuning rotor (e.g., the Kill Shot)? Trinity, for example, didn't spend all that money to get their spec rotors approved just for the sake of getting them approved!!!
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:54 AM   #57
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Trinity, for example, didn't spend all that money to get their spec rotors approved just for the sake of getting them approved!!!
Rotor approvals are free, as long as the company is a ROAR affiliate member. Trinity didn't spend any money to get the rotors approved.
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Old 12-05-2014, 03:37 AM   #58
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Rotor approvals are free, as long as the company is a ROAR affiliate member. Trinity didn't spend any money to get the rotors approved.
Thanks for the clarification on that point. But what is the point of having ROAR Approved Tuning rotor for a specific series of motors (e.g., REVTECH) if those rotors cannot be used in the motors of that series that are ROAR approved (REVTECH Kill Shot 21.5)?
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Old 12-05-2014, 04:09 AM   #59
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Thanks for the clarification on that point. But what is the point of having ROAR Approved Tuning rotor for a specific series of motors (e.g., REVTECH) if those rotors cannot be used in the motors of that series that are ROAR approved (REVTECH Kill Shot 21.5)?
That might be a question to ask Ernie. But he would probably rather sell you a D4 Maxillia. LOL
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Old 12-05-2014, 04:19 AM   #60
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John: I did just notice a ROAR loop hole that I would defend. The "Killshot" is listed as a RevTech which should mean that the tuning rotors are legal at ROAR rules tracks and events. That doesn't help with the USGT rules though as the motor was not submitted to ROAR with any other rotor than the 12.3 mid range per it's approved P/N.
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