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Old 11-22-2014, 03:49 PM   #31
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hey guys i hate to breakup the "your motor isnt legal"argument.but what fdr should i be shooting for in gt class.thank u
Depends what motor you have and what size track you run on.
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:45 PM   #32
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well that was no help,the track is larger than durham track, 45 by 90....and i havent choosen a motor yet,im sure everyone will say d3.or novak.like i said im looking for a good place to start with fdr so i can get some pinions together.just like in vta,4.0 is were u start and tune to track.or is it just a guess fest...
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:52 PM   #33
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well that was no help,the track is larger than durham track, 45 by 90....and i havent choosen a motor yet,im sure everyone will say d3.or novak.like i said im looking for a good place to start with fdr so i can get some pinions together.just like in vta,4.0 is were u start and tune to track.or is it just a guess fest...
I responded back to you on Carolina RC...
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Old 11-22-2014, 06:05 PM   #34
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got it thanks.
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Old 11-22-2014, 07:39 PM   #35
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Pretty simple did your rotor come in the motor? If yes its legal to use
Rob, we have been to events with motor tech/tear down. I recall one instance that the inspector found non legal rotor in what was said to be a brand new legal motor. I had/have no reason to discredit the individual. He needed to source a different unit for the event. So I don't really think we can say, "If it came in the motor it is legal."

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Old 11-22-2014, 07:46 PM   #36
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well that was no help,the track is larger than durham track, 45 by 90....and i havent choosen a motor yet,im sure everyone will say d3.or novak.like i said im looking for a good place to start with fdr so i can get some pinions together.just like in vta,4.0 is were u start and tune to track.or is it just a guess fest...
I am geared at 3.800 with a Novak Vulcan with 45* of timing.

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Old 11-22-2014, 08:08 PM   #37
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thank u sir.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:44 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by smash8ight View Post
well that was no help,the track is larger than durham track, 45 by 90....and i havent choosen a motor yet,im sure everyone will say d3.or novak.like i said im looking for a good place to start with fdr so i can get some pinions together.just like in vta,4.0 is were u start and tune to track.or is it just a guess fest...
Without knowing the motor, the track and how much timing you are going to use, its difficult to give a FDR. But the range I've seen in USGT is 3.0 to 4.4. in USGT. ORCA, Team Powers, D4 & IONV5s, Vulcan, KILL Shots plus a few othhers all seem to be the favorites for USGT but we run on big outdoor asphalt tracks (150'+ straightaways) with 12 minute A mains. Get you motor then go look for a thread on that motor and ask specific FDR questions there.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:38 PM   #39
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Most safe spot for our track here at Thunder RC Raceway is 3.8 to 3.6 for my Sonics 21.5 with 25-30 deg of timing. We run on carpet 95x45 track med to high bite.

I alway gear my car fairly low and start with the timing at lowest point. Then temp and adjust.

But all the varibles are needed to give an accurate answer

Good luck all the same
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:39 PM   #40
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First let me set the stage: While I race USGT, we use Texas Electric Onroad Series rules (TEOS) rules. While those rules for USGT are similar to USVTA USGT rules, they are not the same. One of the differences is there is no prohibition on the use of tuning rotors. I've been running a Team Powers 21.5 motor most of the summer with the same rotor that came in the motor. The Kill Shot motor examples I use here are just to illustrate the issue I see with the USVTA USGT motor rule on tuning rotors expressed by RobK here in this thread which is:

[QUOTE=robk;13673625]Pretty simple did your rotor come in the motor? If yes its legal to use.

Here is the problem with that rule.

Take two Kill Shot 21.5 RPM (stator) motors in the Maxzilla configuration (i.e., with the 12.5mm high torque turquoise rotor -TEP1112). BOth the motor and rotor are ROAR legal. One is purchased with that rotor already installed (REV1603RM) and is USVTA USGT legal. One was purchased with the standard 12.3mm broadband rotor (REV1603R) and later updated to the Maxzilla configuration with the purchase of a 12.5mm high torque turquoise rotor (TEP1112). However, this upgraded motor although identical in configuration to the first is not USGT legal because that tuning rotor did not come with the motor originally.

Here are the issues that I think make this rule as interpreted by Robk absurd.

1. There is no way to enforce this rule as there is no way to inspect these two identically configured motors to tell which one came with the high torque rotor installed and which one was upgraded to have the high torque rotor.

2. The rule itself forces racers to buy entire new motors for different tracks or track conditions or just to keep up with newer motors, instead of just changing out the rotor (at a fraction of the cost of a new motor).

3. Why prohibit only tuning rotors as they are not the only way you can "tune" a motor? For example, the Kill Shot has two types of stators (high RPM and High Torque) and you can tune the motor by changing the type of stator without changing the rotor. So even if you could eliminate the tuning rotors, there are still the issues with the Stators.

4 You can get around the no tuning rotor rule by simply buying a motor with the tuning rotor already installed.

5 What is a tuning rotor, if having it come installed makes it become not a tuning rotor?

Setting rules is challenging at best. But if one rule can be circumvented by simply buying a motor with a "tuning rotor" ready installed, what is the point of having the no tuning rotor rule in the first place?


Give RObK some feedback: Eliminate the tuning rotor rule for USGT: Yes or No?

I vote Yes eliminate it - RObK has already made it superfluous anyway. Lets just give every racer the opportunity to get an ROAR approved tuning rotor less than 12.51mm diameter without having to buy an entire new motor.

Last edited by John Wallace2; 11-23-2014 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 11-24-2014, 05:25 AM   #41
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John:
There is one statement made about the KillShot. The HT version has a different stator also. As the ROAR rule is written, only the HT rotor may be used in it as that is the way it was approved. The same goes for the rpm version (only the 12.3 rotor in it).
As you said very difficult to tech but not impossible at a major event.
The tuning rotor thing has gotten out of hand but I look on my shelf and see the box of about 20 ROAR 27t brushed motors I haven't thrown away yet. Then I understand why things are better.
The way TOUR did it at their Nats. Bring motor disassembled to tech. The stator gets checked, rotor checked and end bells examined. You re-assemble it at the table and it gets sealed. If you want to make a change, repeat it. You had all of practice to get it right. Long process for several hundred motors but necessary now days.
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Old 11-24-2014, 03:47 PM   #42
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Im curious as to whats wrong with buying a "normal" 21.5 from you hobby shop and putting it in your cool looking GT car and racing with your friends.

did I miss something?...all the people always looking for some loophole in the rules shouldnt be here....you are in the wrong class and wrong thread. I dont understand whats the issue with having fun in the slower classes.

Let me be clear..yes I am sponsored and only care to run USVTA and USGT, and I run the classes cause they are fun and the cars look good. But does that mean I should have AE/Reedy send me 20 motors to see which one is best?...or contact Charlie and ask the same...or batteries?...heck no...I get the same stuff that anybody else can get.

If you are here on this thread or the USVTA thread...how about you simply comply with the rules and help promote these type classes to help our hobby grow. The slower classes bring in the new racers...help them by following the rules and help them build their driving skills and setup skills.

my 6 years worth of being Pro-USVTA/USGT/RCGT
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Old 11-27-2014, 04:56 AM   #43
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John:
There is one statement made about the KillShot. The HT version has a different stator also. As the ROAR rule is written, only the HT rotor may be used in it as that is the way it was approved. The same goes for the rpm version (only the 12.3 rotor in it).
As you said very difficult to tech but not impossible at a major event.
The tuning rotor thing has gotten out of hand but I look on my shelf and see the box of about 20 ROAR 27t brushed motors I haven't thrown away yet. Then I understand why things are better.
The way TOUR did it at their Nats. Bring motor disassembled to tech. The stator gets checked, rotor checked and end bells examined. You re-assemble it at the table and it gets sealed. If you want to make a change, repeat it. You had all of practice to get it right. Long process for several hundred motors but necessary now days.
I checked the Trinity Website and they seem to be overlooking that fact, as they are marketing the 21.5 RPM Maxzilla (i.e., 12.5mm high torque rotor) as ROAR legal.
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:22 AM   #44
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I checked the Trinity Website and they seem to be overlooking that fact, as they are marketing the 21.5 RPM Maxzilla (i.e., 12.5mm high torque rotor) as ROAR legal.
If you are pure to the ROAR rule it isn't (even though they may market it as such). The motors were submitted with a specific stator and rotor as per their part numbers 1603T and 1603R. There are other part numbers that they sell as combos with different rotors and stators like the 1603RM and the 1603TM but those motors are not on the approval list. It should be noted that the tuning rotors from Trinity are only approved for the Duo 1-2-3 (not the 3.5) and the Revtech series. This is per the ROAR list. Now I don't know of a single race outside of a ROAR event that limits the rotors as listed but technically they can.
Again this is the pure ROAR rule and I have discussed this with a ROAR rep and from that conversation I understand what I have stated to be true.

This ought to stir the pot.
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:29 AM   #45
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I checked the Trinity Website and they seem to be overlooking that fact, as they are marketing the 21.5 RPM Maxzilla (i.e., 12.5mm high torque rotor) as ROAR legal.
John:
I was wrong about the 1603T motor as being approved with the HT 12.5 rotor. It was not, it uses the 12.3 mid range rotor ans as such is only legal with that rotor (to the letter of the ROAR rules). The only difference between the 1603T and the 1603R is the stator. I believe Trinity could request that the tuning rotor series be approved for the KillShot series and the D4 series as well but I don't see that this approval has been done.
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