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Old 11-21-2014, 01:13 AM   #16
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Just use what came with your motor. Pretty simple. I guess its a big bon us for you if you run a trinity. We'll never know your secrets
But Trinity isn't the only one, just the one I'm most familiar with.

Unlike the 25.5 motor, ROAR has specs for the 21.5 motor and there are ROAR approved 21.5 spec motors and ROAR approved spec rotors. So for simplicity why don't we state for USGT: Any ROAR approved 21.5 spec motor with any ROAR approved 12.3mm or 12.5mm spec rotor? Optional: Stator and rotor must be from the same manufacture.

Why continue pretending that swapping Rotors isn't happening?

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Old 11-21-2014, 03:45 AM   #17
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Why not for once follow the rules?

I know I know its a silly thing to say.

Really I would like everyone to avoid all the tuning rotor baloney, but of course it cannot be avoided, since nobody can bring themselves to actually do what's right.
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:50 AM   #18
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Why not for once follow the rules?

I know I know its a silly thing to say.

Really I would like everyone to avoid all the tuning rotor baloney, but of course it cannot be avoided, since nobody can bring themselves to actually do what's right.
Rob, your initial clarification above would solve a lot of that.

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Old 11-21-2014, 07:18 AM   #19
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Motor rules are a really sticky buisness. ROAR is working hard to catch up and then keep up. Mean while we have a bunch of guys trying to stretch the rules. Please racers, don't look for a crutch. Tune the car and run what is legal. ESC's included.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:48 AM   #20
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As previously stated, with several companies you can just buy a motor with a "tuning" rotor already in it, so to have a rule that states you have to use the rotor that comes with the motor, with the intention of having it somehow ban tuning rotors, is not logical. A 12.5mm high torque rotor is really the only kind that have any advantage in any touring car classes anyway. You could make the rule specify 12.3mm rotors only, but you would also have to ban rotors over some arbitrary gauss rating too, for it to make any difference at leveling the field. Then someone would also have to inspect everyone's motor. Far easier to just allow tuning rotors under 12.51mm.

Your OEM rotor rule may have good intentions, but people don't comply with good intentions, they push the limit within the wording of the rules, like ignoring the word "discouraged". This is part of racing.

You need to have clear rules with no margin for interpretation.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:53 AM   #21
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Thats exactly what people are doing. "Tuning" the cars motor with OEM tuning rotors that fall between 12.3-12.5mm. Thats the way way the current rule is written. And I beleive should stay that way. Many manufacturers offer different size rotors in their ROAR approved motors. An example is Tekin. They offer rpm and torque rotors in 17.5, 21.5, and 25.5 motors.

If the rule were to be only the rotor that came in the motor, then it would be very difficult to tech. Too many variables.

But I can agree to an extent about people need to stop trying to flex the rules to the breaking point. The Orion motor in question from the OP is a great example. USGT rules clearly state ROAR legal motors. The description of the motor clearly states it doesn't fit "strict" ROAR rules. I understand sonetimes people need clarification, and I think the OP was wondering what makes it different than ROAR approved motor. All the replys on this thread did that without getting mean like happens so many times on RCTECH.
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:07 PM   #22
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Why not for once follow the rules?

I know I know its a silly thing to say.

Really I would like everyone to avoid all the tuning rotor baloney, but of course it cannot be avoided, since nobody can bring themselves to actually do what's right.
Actually I am following the USGT rules as I understood them until your post (i.e., only use the rotor that came with the motor). Also I'm following the rules of the racing organizations/clubs here in Texas where I race that do not have any language about tuning rotors.

So if I buy a KillShot or a D4 21.5 Maxzilla motor, is that motor going to be legal or illegal using your latest rule pronouncement - it uses what you classify as a tuning rotor, but that is the rotor in the motor as sold by Trinity? I could argue that if I replaced the 12.5mm Torque rotor in the Maxzilla motor, with a 12.3mm broad band rotor (what usually comes with the non Maxzilla motors) to "tune" the motor for a specific track, which I have done by the way, the 12.3mm rotor could be considered a Tuning rotor since it isn't the rotor that came with the motor as originally sold by the OEM.

IMO If you want to avoid "tuning rotors", you need to define what is considered to be (or not to be) a tuning rotor for each motor instead of whining about why you guys don't follow the rules. Personally until yesterday, I never had the slightest inkling that it was not in the spirit of the USGT rules to put the same OEM rotor in my motor to make it the same configuration as another motor being sold by that OEM (i.e., the Maxzilla version). To me that was a very cost effective way to get another motor. If you don't define what USGT considers to be tuning rotors, you have what you have now: a vague, ill-defined rule that cannot be enforced since there is no written definition of what is considers a tuning rotor.
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:14 PM   #23
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"Use of tuning rotors is discouraged"
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:21 PM   #24
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How would you even tech this?

I have two motors from two different manufacturers that both claim to come with 12.5mm rotors. One came with a 12.36mm rotor and the other 12.38. Are those motors illegal? It's what they came with. For the first one I bought the ROAR legal 12.5 stock replacement and it was 12.51. Is that illegal for not being the rotor it came with or is it now legal for having what it's supposed to have? The second motor I also bought another rotor and it measured 12.40. Bought another one and it was 12.41. That's three supposedly 12.5 rotors and the biggest one is 12.41.

Wanting to have a rule like "no tuning rotors" is all fine and dandy but if it can't be properly policed and enforced, it's a pretty useless rule. Since bigger is almost always better in blinky anyway, just make it a 12.51mm max ROAR legal stock rotor. If someone wants to waste their money trying to get 12.3s to work, let them.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:46 PM   #25
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Pretty simple did your rotor come in the motor? If yes its legal to use

If Im whining its because everybody basically has to twist everything possible. I know nobody is going to check anything. Just do whatever you want. I know theres plenty of motolyzers and dynos running right now. Everybody wants to tune everything up instead of just putting the motor in the car.

This is why trans am is one motor. SO I still have hair after reading all this stuff.
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:46 AM   #26
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Pretty simple did your rotor come in the motor? If yes its legal to use

If Im whining its because everybody basically has to twist everything possible. I know nobody is going to check anything. Just do whatever you want. I know theres plenty of motolyzers and dynos running right now. Everybody wants to tune everything up instead of just putting the motor in the car.

This is why trans am is one motor. SO I still have hair after reading all this stuff.
Robk:
You know me from "The Gate" I try to fend all of this stuff off there and I have lost my hair.
I have been priviy to a big issue that might surface this week at the Indoor Champs. A certain major motor manufacturer doesn't like a competitors approved motor. They intend on setting tech numbers that might keep the competitors motors out. This will be a big stink if it happens.
I have only been to three races where motors were torn down. ROAR Nationals, TOUR Nationals and occasionally we have done it at the Halloween Classic.
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Old 11-22-2014, 06:32 AM   #27
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Interesting to hear theirs yet another motor that is not quite within the rules , look forward to hear the spec # range
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Old 11-22-2014, 08:57 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
Pretty simple did your rotor come in the motor? If yes its legal to use

If Im whining its because everybody basically has to twist everything possible. I know nobody is going to check anything. Just do whatever you want. I know theres plenty of motolyzers and dynos running right now. Everybody wants to tune everything up instead of just putting the motor in the car.

This is why trans am is one motor. SO I still have hair after reading all this stuff.
PLAYING BY THE RULES?.....Novel idea, but your addressing racers. I for one agree with you completely, but if this is anything like the GT body controversy racers will always stretch the rules where there is any wiggle room, or vagueness.

How anyone can live with themselves after winning a race they know they cheated to win is beyond my comprehension.....but I guess some have no conscience.
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Old 11-22-2014, 10:37 AM   #29
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Old 11-22-2014, 02:08 PM   #30
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hey guys i hate to breakup the "your motor isnt legal"argument.but what fdr should i be shooting for in gt class.thank u
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