R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-25-2014, 10:22 AM   #511
Tech Master
 
Magnet Top's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,954
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

So is Scotties ETS series in Europe successful because it's marketed well or because they use a true spec motor for stock ? I'm thinking both.
__________________
AWESOMATIX -- ORCA -- GRAVITY R/C -- SEATTLE R/C RACERS
Magnet Top is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 10:42 AM   #512
Tech Elite
 
theproffesor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lugoff SC
Posts: 2,743
Trader Rating: 56 (100%+)
Default

The success comes from having a series. Racers like points series. Problem is you can't get tracks to consistantly work together. They all want the same piece of the pie and they all want the biggest piece. Tracks cannot get together on a schedule or rules for longer than a single season. After that to much bickering takes place and poof there went that idea. Having a strong national organization could help this.
__________________
Associated - Fantom - Savox - Hobbywing - Spectrum.
The brighter the picture, the darker the negative. USVTA member #112
theproffesor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 10:49 AM   #513
Team EAM
 
EAMotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 9,099
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to EAMotorsports
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnet Top View Post
So is Scotties ETS series in Europe successful because it's marketed well or because they use a true spec motor for stock ? I'm thinking both.
It has very little to do with the motor I believe. Why is their mod class 100 entries almost every race? There is no spec motor there.

The ETS series is so successful because of the way its marketed, organized and ran by one of the best in the industry. Its not a coincidence that the IIC is also the largest in the US. Same person behind both.

The other reason is Europe has nothing like the Snowbirds or IIC over there. They want races like that and the ETS gives them this. The flights are much cheaper for all those people to get to their races too for what ever reason. The races are 3 days long, entry fee is low and the big think is the manufactures are behind the ETS 100%. They bring all their big drivers to the event, setup booths and do numerous other things too that appeal to the racers.

On the other side of it there is more complaining about cheating in the stock class there than any other race Ive ever been too. Simply because everyone thinks since they all run the same gear, same motor, same timing, same speedo that if someone is faster down the straight they demand that that person is cheating and want his entire car torn apart. This is the bad side I have seen when I was over for the ETS a couple of years ago.

So just because everyone runs the exact same thing the whining, crying and accusing people of cheating will never stop. Someone that gets outrun is always going to say someone else was cheating because they are too good to admit someone was better than them.

EA
__________________
Contact Us
Team EAM, Our Facebook
Xray | RCAmerica | Hudy | Apex RC | RC Mission | Killer Concepts | AVID | Hobbywing.
EAMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 10:54 AM   #514
Tech Champion
 
jmackani's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Shippensburg
Posts: 5,601
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
The success comes from having a series. Racers like points series. Problem is you can't get tracks to consistantly work together. They all want the same piece of the pie and they all want the biggest piece. Tracks cannot get together on a schedule or rules for longer than a single season. After that to much bickering takes place and poof there went that idea. Having a strong national organization could help this.
Funny you should say this. We have a series on the offroad side in region 2 and it has grown well over the last 6 years. I agree tracks do not want to work together after managing this series and it takes a 3rd party to establish in most cases. It's all about making a living for most tracks and hobby shops. Ironically, if you go over to the racing forum and read about the elections for Region 2 there are plenty of ideas where people want to remove the series. Mostly for a host of expense related reasons. See here:ROAR Region 2 voting
__________________
LCRC Raceway http://www.lostcreekcycles.com/lcrc.htm
Proline Racing http:://www.prolineracing.com
jmackani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 11:06 AM   #515
Tech Master
 
Magnet Top's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,954
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
It has very little to do with the motor I believe. Why is their mod class 100 entries almost every race? There is no spec motor there.

The ETS series is so successful because of the way its marketed, organized and ran by one of the best in the industry. Its not a coincidence that the IIC is also the largest in the US. Same person behind both.

The other reason is Europe has nothing like the Snowbirds or IIC over there. They want races like that and the ETS gives them this. The flights are much cheaper for all those people to get to their races too for what ever reason. The races are 3 days long, entry fee is low and the big think is the manufactures are behind the ETS 100%. They bring all their big drivers to the event, setup booths and do numerous other things too that appeal to the racers.

On the other side of it there is more complaining about cheating in the stock class there than any other race Ive ever been too. Simply because everyone thinks since they all run the same gear, same motor, same timing, same speedo that if someone is faster down the straight they demand that that person is cheating and want his entire car torn apart. This is the bad side I have seen when I was over for the ETS a couple of years ago.

So just because everyone runs the exact same thing the whining, crying and accusing people of cheating will never stop. Someone that gets outrun is always going to say someone else was cheating because they are too good to admit someone was better than them.

EA
Thank you for replying. Basically, I will agree with most of what you said. The success of ETS is mostly about marketing and organization.

On your first point, I disagree. Mod isn't popular because its not a spec motor ! Mod doesn't requires a driver to purchase a ton of motors because that isn't what defines success in mod. Most of the time we have too much power in mod and it just needs some esc, transmitter, and gearing adjustment to be fast and smooth. Stock actually costs more to run because of the constant "motor of the month" war requires finding and buying the fastest brand or rotor combo, best and freshest battery, and even ESC. So I won't agree with you on that point comparing the turnout of Mod being high at ETS and yet its not a spec motor. That isn't a direct cause and effect.

So, I still believe a true spec motor in stock would still be a good thing to grow the sport here in the USA. It would lead to more racers and more importantly more quality drivers over drivers with lots of money to spend on the motor of the month and fresh batteries... etc. Which in turn would increase the number of drivers able to compete in mod.

And if the whiners in stock complain about the spec motors being unequal they have a choice to make, go run mod. :-)
Jake D.
__________________
AWESOMATIX -- ORCA -- GRAVITY R/C -- SEATTLE R/C RACERS
Magnet Top is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 11:33 AM   #516
Team EAM
 
EAMotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 9,099
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to EAMotorsports
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnet Top View Post
Thank you for replying. Basically, I will agree with most of what you said. The success of ETS is mostly about marketing and organization.

On your first point, I disagree. Mod isn't popular because its not a spec motor ! Mod doesn't requires a driver to purchase a ton of motors because that isn't what defines success in mod. Most of the time we have too much power in mod and it just needs some esc, transmitter, and gearing adjustment to be fast and smooth. Stock actually costs more to run because of the constant "motor of the month" war requires finding and buying the fastest brand or rotor combo, best and freshest battery, and even ESC. So I won't agree with you on that point comparing the turnout of Mod being high at ETS and yet its not a spec motor. That isn't a direct cause and effect.

So, I still believe a true spec motor in stock would still be a good thing to grow the sport here in the USA. It would lead to more racers and more importantly more quality drivers over drivers with lots of money to spend on the motor of the month and fresh batteries... etc. Which in turn would increase the number of drivers able to compete in mod.

And if the whiners in stock complain about the spec motors being unequal they have a choice to make, go run mod. :-)
Jake D.
I think I may have not completed my thought on the Mod class in my first statement. I dont think Mod is bigger there based on its a single motor. I think its bigger there because of some of the other points I hit on. One being the organizers. Second because of the heavy TC manufacture support for the series. At least I know Xray requires any contract EU onroad driver to attend the ETS races each year.

The other reason I believe mod is bigger there is their carpet tracks are much much more suited for a mod car. Forgiving walls, larger tracks, flowing layouts, etc. And because Europe has sooooo many outdoor tracks that are very very large I think most run mod on them because stock is too slow and just carry that over indoors when they go to run carpet.

Im not saying I am against a handout motor here for a race. Was just pointing out a "possible' issue with it.

EA
__________________
Contact Us
Team EAM, Our Facebook
Xray | RCAmerica | Hudy | Apex RC | RC Mission | Killer Concepts | AVID | Hobbywing.
EAMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 11:38 AM   #517
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,930
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
It has very little to do with the motor I believe. Why is their mod class 100 entries almost every race? There is no spec motor there.

The ETS series is so successful because of the way its marketed, organized and ran by one of the best in the industry. Its not a coincidence that the IIC is also the largest in the US. Same person behind both.

The other reason is Europe has nothing like the Snowbirds or IIC over there. They want races like that and the ETS gives them this. The flights are much cheaper for all those people to get to their races too for what ever reason. The races are 3 days long, entry fee is low and the big think is the manufactures are behind the ETS 100%. They bring all their big drivers to the event, setup booths and do numerous other things too that appeal to the racers.

On the other side of it there is more complaining about cheating in the stock class there than any other race Ive ever been too. Simply because everyone thinks since they all run the same gear, same motor, same timing, same speedo that if someone is faster down the straight they demand that that person is cheating and want his entire car torn apart. This is the bad side I have seen when I was over for the ETS a couple of years ago.

So just because everyone runs the exact same thing the whining, crying and accusing people of cheating will never stop. Someone that gets outrun is always going to say someone else was cheating because they are too good to admit someone was better than them.

EA
It is a big race with lots of track time ran over three days. a guy can take off the same number of work days to run the whole series as he would to run a single race here ('birds or IIC).

This would not even work here (nor would a National Series) and based on the "big" races, it seems racers like the long drawn out races.

Now if you can package the ETS concept into smaller pieces (like ROAR regions) where you can access events easily, you could create something popular.
__________________
www.reedypower.com
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 12:19 PM   #518
Team EAM
 
EAMotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 9,099
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to EAMotorsports
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
It is a big race with lots of track time ran over three days. a guy can take off the same number of work days to run the whole series as he would to run a single race here ('birds or IIC).

This would not even work here (nor would a National Series) and based on the "big" races, it seems racers like the long drawn out races.

Now if you can package the ETS concept into smaller pieces (like ROAR regions) where you can access events easily, you could create something popular.
I agree with everything you said. Most people simply dont have the vacation time or money to go to 5 week long races a year for sure!

But what if somehow the Birds and IIC were 2 of the 5 series races and then the other 3 were 3 day races? That's something that could garner interest.

EA
__________________
Contact Us
Team EAM, Our Facebook
Xray | RCAmerica | Hudy | Apex RC | RC Mission | Killer Concepts | AVID | Hobbywing.
EAMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2014, 01:35 PM   #519
Tech Elite
 
bkspeedo's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Fort Fun, CO
Posts: 3,133
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Rick and EA make good points but in my opinion ETS is popular because there's only 2 classes (Mod TC and Stock TC), 3rd being introduce in the last year or 2, that being F1. That's why they can do it in 3 days with amble practice.

Here we have to run everything which stretches the race out in order to get in even a little practice.

Not sure if this would work but if we wanted 5 races a year that are 3 days we'd have to follow the same format.

Look a Reedy race this year, 2 classes about 175 people, you can only run 1 class. I would call that successful.

The question is what do the Europeans do for Pan car big events?
__________________
Brent Klingforth
Sponsors: Awesomatix USA ~ Roche USA ~ ORCA ~ AVID Bearings ~ R1 Wurks
TQ Wire ~ Montech ~ WTF ~ BSR Racing Tires ~ 2mm Design ~ Helix Designs
5280 Raceway
MILE HIGH INDOOR CHAMPS April 19-22nd 2018 @ www.milehighindoorchamps.com
bkspeedo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2014, 09:11 AM   #520
Tech Elite
 
NutDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,126
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Well, I believe that voting ends on Friday of this week. As I currently see it, this situation and this thread have put the people's opinions out on public display. I hope that Steve and Steve will take this as a call to improve what they do. It seems that they have succeeded in blocking EA from being on the ballot THIS year. I hope that there will be someone with qualifications and motivation to go after the VP seat this time next year. At this point, I'm out of the discussion and not following the thread further. ROAR, the ball is in your court. The people have spoken.

Scott Franklin
__________________
"Racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague longing for something salty" - Peter Egan

USVTA member #111
NutDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2014, 09:32 AM   #521
Team EAM
 
EAMotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 9,099
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to EAMotorsports
Default

Ive spoken to Steve Mruk on a few occasions now since all this has happened and he is who I have cast my vote for and will support for the next two years. He told me some of the things he wants to do and has on the agenda. Hopefully he can follow through with those to move ROAR forward.

EA
__________________
Contact Us
Team EAM, Our Facebook
Xray | RCAmerica | Hudy | Apex RC | RC Mission | Killer Concepts | AVID | Hobbywing.
EAMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2014, 10:19 AM   #522
Team Tekin
 
Randy_Pike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Norcal
Posts: 9,660
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to Randy_Pike
Default

Too bad neither have come on here to "speak" to the rest of us....
__________________
"Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle." Abraham Lincoln

Tekin,Protek,A-Main Hobbies,JConcepts,Avid RC,Yokomo,MIP,SikLidz,FactoryRC, www.randypikerc.com
Randy_Pike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2014, 11:44 AM   #523
Tech Champion
 
Roelof's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Holland
Posts: 6,071
Send a message via ICQ to Roelof
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
It has very little to do with the motor I believe. Why is their mod class 100 entries almost every race? There is no spec motor there.

The ETS series is so successful because of the way its marketed, organized and ran by one of the best in the industry. Its not a coincidence that the IIC is also the largest in the US. Same person behind both.

The other reason is Europe has nothing like the Snowbirds or IIC over there. They want races like that and the ETS gives them this. The flights are much cheaper for all those people to get to their races too for what ever reason. The races are 3 days long, entry fee is low and the big think is the manufactures are behind the ETS 100%. They bring all their big drivers to the event, setup booths and do numerous other things too that appeal to the racers.

On the other side of it there is more complaining about cheating in the stock class there than any other race Ive ever been too. Simply because everyone thinks since they all run the same gear, same motor, same timing, same speedo that if someone is faster down the straight they demand that that person is cheating and want his entire car torn apart. This is the bad side I have seen when I was over for the ETS a couple of years ago.

So just because everyone runs the exact same thing the whining, crying and accusing people of cheating will never stop. Someone that gets outrun is always going to say someone else was cheating because they are too good to admit someone was better than them.

EA
There are several thoughts why the ETS is better visited than other national and EFRA races.

1) The drivers have nothing to tell, they only have to follow the rules.
2) The rules are simple (but imo there is nothing different than running an EFRA race)
3) For sure with every race you are among many top names
4) it is cheaper than an EFRA race and you even get some interesting gifts you can use.
5) it is well covered by REDRC (although the lower drivers are not mentioned...)

Beginning this year I went to ETS in Germany to meet Mr Jang from Muchmore about a FDR meassure tool I have devellopped and is used on the ETS. I must say there was also a down side at this race, with over 300 contenders there were long days with only less drive time. At that moment there were complains about it.

But my device can also meassure the RPM and the current Muchmore stock ESC/Motor combo is very stable. All motors do share almost the same KV which we can not say with the previous Speed Passion combo, for sure if you know at the end there were many different SP motors with the same order number.
After 1 year collecting all data we can say there is no cheating with motors, ESC's and gearing. The only thing I saw which must be changed by rules is that while walking from the pit table to the track and let the battery inspected on the output voltage many drivers were giving throttle as if they know they have a high voltage which must be drained a bit.
__________________
The quality of an answer comes with the quality of the question.
Roelof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2014, 11:48 AM   #524
Tech Master
 
slakr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 1,676
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy_Pike View Post
Too bad neither have come on here to "speak" to the rest of us....
Where's the "LIKE" button?

+1
__________________
TLR 22 4.0, 22-4 2.0, 8IGHT & 8IGHT-E 4.0~XRAY XB2C~AE TC7.1
Tim aka "slakr" ROAR No. 3-119960
slakr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2014, 12:05 PM   #525
Tech Master
 
NITRO 540's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Stafford Va.
Posts: 1,029
Trader Rating: 10 (92%+)
Default

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Last edited by NITRO 540; 11-26-2014 at 12:52 PM.
NITRO 540 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:01 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net