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Old 11-19-2014, 12:42 PM   #361
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Some great ideas, but I feel that some of the items are to generalized and as a whole get shoved into ROARs shoes, but isn't really what they, as a sanctioning body are required.

For example, saying to get rid of 17.5, for which class? This is possibly a fix for one certain class, but how does it effect others? To go to a 21.5 or a 25.5 motor in 1/12th just isn't feasible in gearing. Even 17.5 isn't really fast for that class. Now for ROAR to come out with a list of wind X, motor that conforms to their set standards, is all they should really be doing. Its up to your local to determine what works as far as speed is concerned, not ROAR. At least you know that brand X is the same as brand Y motor.

They can't do everything, same as hosting regional races, sure your Regional Director should be in attendance, but to think that a full compliment of support team will show up is just out of scope. This is really no different then your club hosting a big race, your RD runs the show, but its the locals that help put it on and make the show.

Our club uses ROAR rules loosely for the classes we run, and we use their insurance for our track and its been pretty good for us.

Yes ROAR could be tuned up, but we have to look at the bigger picture, they can't fix local level issues most of the time, all they can do is fall back on what they have documented for rules and bylaws and then tweak those as required. We all may not like the outcome, but thats the ways it goes some times.

(Please don't take the motor example as a argumentative topic, just showing its not as simple as doing away with one item.)
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Old 11-19-2014, 12:42 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
Glad to see some positives coming out now. Now hopefully ROAR will take some of this and put it to good use for the future!

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I would also expect your PM inbox to be filled with reminders around the beginning of September LOL.
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:06 PM   #363
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It's great that we are making a list of items to request from ROAR. Now maybe we should make a list for ourselves. May I humbly suggest:

1) Do not assume someone is going to do something for you if you give nothing in return. We all have our own unique skills. Help with what you can. We can accomplish much as a group.

2) If ROAR is to represent the majority of racers, then the majority of racers must belong to ROAR. If you are not a member, become one.

3) Conduct all discussion in a civilized manner, based on fact and logic. Good ideas are quickly dismissed if they are part of a rant or personal attack.

4) To be continued by fellow racers...
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:01 PM   #364
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1. Streamline the classes. There is no need to have 11 different classes at a race. That may bring us back closer to the mod/stock days of a-z mains. I know I would be more proud of finishing in the C main of a class with an O main, than finishing in the A with only one main behind you.
2. Use a semi-regional race to seed the regional.
3. Use the regional results to seed the nationals.
4. Require attendance at the regional to qualify for the National.
5 At the National, only the racers who attended the Regional can be able to win the National. Any racer can race in the class. For example, Joe can finish first in the main and win the race, but the top finishing racer that attended a regional ,Pete, places 3rd and is the actual National Champion.

To me, this puts a emphasis on racing at the local level, instead of just practicing for the "big" race and hoping your ducks and stars are aligned that weekend.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:15 PM   #365
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I agree EA! I just don't understand why it had to come to this for the "leaders" to ask what needs to be fixed! This is all stuff that should be part of their everyday duties! It shouldn't take all of this pressure for them to do what they were elected and appointed to do. On the flip side, I do hope some positive changes come from this.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:22 PM   #366
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For a thought, would increasing the membership fee 10-20$ a year provide enough of a revenue increase to be able to either a) hire, or b) pay the existing positions enough to make it feasible to do all the things that seem to be the common complaints. The "its a volunteer position, so it takes time to get things done" could be eliminated and things could be done quicker.

I noticed not one person on here complained about the membership fee, so i dont think the price point is the problem with people joining. As was stated earlier, its about perceived value. Racers will pay if they feel they are getting their moneys worth.

Example:
2014 roar carpet nats, 85$ entry fee, under 100 total entries.
2014 IIC : average 125$ entry fee, over 400 total entries.

Those extra 300 people is not just bc of location, its because people feel they get more fun/enjoyment out of that 125 over the 85.

If I have to pay a 33-50% increase in my membership fee to receive what I feel like is 100% increase in my entertainment value, its a no brainer.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:52 PM   #367
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How do you guys feel about having a regional and national driver ranking
system? I have been working on it this past season. I have it close to being finished?
Thoughts?
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Old 11-19-2014, 03:06 PM   #368
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Thank you everyone for contributing suggestions and POSITIVE input.

I know some here are asking why ROAR does not intuitively know what racers want. Honestly, it's hard to read minds. Thank you for posting your concrete ideas and concerns.

I hope that everyone will realize that some of these things need the membership to step up as well. Regional and local events do not happen or get better if there is no region director, no regional assistants, no one helping out. I realize that a lot of people contribute, but things can get better if more are involved.

Please keep this dialog up.
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Old 11-19-2014, 03:27 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by chensleyrc1 View Post
5 At the National, only the racers who attended the Regional can be able to win the National. Any racer can race in the class. For example, Joe can finish first in the main and win the race, but the top finishing racer that attended a regional ,Pete, places 3rd and is the actual National Champion.

To me, this puts a emphasis on racing at the local level, instead of just practicing for the "big" race and hoping your ducks and stars are aligned that weekend.
Telling people that they must have competed at the regional level in order to 'win' at the national level seems absolutely asinine.

The point of nationals isn't to find 'the fastest guy who made the A main at nationals but also attended regionals.' The point of nationals is to find the fastest guy on that day, for any given class. End of story.

What about those who don't have regionals (and are thus unable to attend due to circumstances outside of their control)? What about folks who don't have enough funds or vacation time to attend both events, and so choose to attend the more prestigious of the two (Nationals)? What about guys who already go to so many races that they can't attend one more?

We need to be removing hurdles to competition, not adding more of them. I think on-road racing is already strongest at the local and regional levels, so why sacrifice competition at the national level, when we already have incredibly low attendance at those races?

This is also why we shouldn't start requiring qualification for Nationals. Maybe if we had A through ZZ mains and the race days were going to be 18 hours long, we should be worried about reducing attendance through a qualifying structure. Right now, though? We should be handing out free handies, courtesy of FJ, just to get people in the door.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:12 PM   #370
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EA had mentioned the flyer guys and what they get for the $58 they pay yearly. I used to be a member and i read the insurance stuff regularly. It might be feasable to get the racing community under the AMA umbrella. they do alot more for the members than roar does. the insurance is fantastic for the clubs and the members. take a look at this...http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/I...aryMembers.pdf

thats the insurance summary for the members. They have a huge facility in muncie indiana and i do believe they have an onroad race track there too. but the grounds are amazing. museum etc. ama has there stuff together. worth a look. if it was done right it could work under ama. just a thought. i also pm'd eric about this.


There were plans in the past for an onroad track but from what i can tell on the ama site that never materialized.

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Old 11-19-2014, 06:22 PM   #371
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ROAR
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O=Off
A=All
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Old 11-20-2014, 04:54 AM   #372
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I'll add to the list of things ROAR could be doing to better.

ROAR must first realize that it has been distracted from its first 2 core values From the ROAR Rule book:

Guide the development of the sport
Provide for its growth and welfare


Rules only play a part in those.

Create a solid communication plan(something I suggested to ROAR when asked before) from the top down(excom to associate directors to members). Communication is the foundation of everything inter-personally related. As a society communication paths significantly differ than yesteryear and all must be considered and are ever changing.

Create a business development function/area/site/forum/guide to help track owners/starters/enthusiast bring and share creative ideas on how to grow the sport and to also show what it takes to be successful(something I suggested to ROAR when asked before). After all ROAR cannot grow without successful tracks. Too many here today gone tomorrow. This is not ROAR's fault, but providing basic tools and guides with help to potentially be successful is needed.

The world has changed significantly, keeping drivers involved is difficult due to tons of other entertainment avenues/values, activities, etc. Most Americans: why put up with this crap when I can turn my Xbox, PS4 etc on? Bam instant gratification and never had to leave the house, work on anything, or listen to anyone bitch and moan. I have seen this time and time again especially with the younger generation.

To be able to grow, get in touch with the real world from a marketing perspective probably something ROAR has never had to do until now. The only marketing I've ever seen is news articles in the press. The masses won't come to ROAR, ROAR has to come to the masses.

If ROAR had its members on its side, almost every track would be a ROAR affiliated track. Clearly that is not the case. Members aren't just going to wake up one day and say hey I think my local track needs to be a ROAR track. Its up ROAR's leadership to change member's perspectives. For ROAR to survive, this must happen.
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Old 11-20-2014, 04:59 AM   #373
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Quote:
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ROAR
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O=Off
A=All
R=Racers
that was constructive
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Old 11-20-2014, 05:03 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Jonesy112 View Post
For a thought, would increasing the membership fee 10-20$ a year provide enough of a revenue increase to be able to either a) hire, or b) pay the existing positions enough to make it feasible to do all the things that seem to be the common complaints. The "its a volunteer position, so it takes time to get things done" could be eliminated and things could be done quicker.

I noticed not one person on here complained about the membership fee, so i dont think the price point is the problem with people joining. As was stated earlier, its about perceived value. Racers will pay if they feel they are getting their moneys worth.

Example:
2014 roar carpet nats, 85$ entry fee, under 100 total entries.
2014 IIC : average 125$ entry fee, over 400 total entries.

Those extra 300 people is not just bc of location, its because people feel they get more fun/enjoyment out of that 125 over the 85.

If I have to pay a 33-50% increase in my membership fee to receive what I feel like is 100% increase in my entertainment value, its a no brainer.
Would be interesting to see how many of those that went to the ROAR nats were either contractually obligated and/or were fighting to get to the worlds.
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:45 AM   #375
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One thing to help ROAR is the mentality of the representatives at a track for the larger races. It has been suggested before that ROAR should arrive before the racers and have everything they are responsible for (primarily tech inspection) set up and ready to go. They should have knowledgable people there to do it with referance material at the ready. And finally, yes these are volunteer positions, but as an official you chose to volunteer. If you cant meet the obligations requiered, dont volunteer to start with, or step down when it becomes to much. People (especially noobies) expect the best representation possible, and when they cant get a straight answer directly from the horses mouth, they get upset and walk away from ROAR. The U.S. needs a national organization represent us on the world stage. We are the greatest country in the world and we should have the greatest organization in the world. What we have now fall way short of that goal. I was a member once years ago and got out of the hobby to finish school. When I returned a whole new race structure had taken over and I saw no reason to join ROAR again. I hope that there will be some improvements that can convince me to join back up.

Helpfull suggestions: Use the ROAR memebership to our advantage. Why use funds to build a website. There has to be a web designer out there in the membership pool. Put out a request and offer some incentive for a member to offer thier services to build a relavant and easy to use website. Other services such as lawers and marketing could also be tapped.

Have incentives and standards for ROAR affiliated tracks. This means offer something other than insurance which can purchased privately now to ROAR affilated tracks. And have standards for ROAR tracks. This means that as a member or any RC person in general, I can expect a certain level of proffesionalism and quality at any track I go to. This is call brand recognition. Similar to the way Mcdonalds works. A McDees is a McDees almost anywhere you go, even oversees. These two, incintives and standards work together. ROAR has to be able to provide assistance to those tracks trying to maintain the standard. This assistance could come in many forms, from administrative expertise on operations, helping with the purchase of materials (through exclusive discounts procured by ROAR), or providing a network (through the website) for track owners and race directors to bounce ideas off of each other.

There are many ways to imporve the current system, but until huberous is removed and humility takes its place, very little will actually get done.
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