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Old 11-17-2014, 02:14 PM   #196
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Rick, non-insurance related question for you. Isn't it really IFMAR that has the chassis dimension, motor, tire and battery rules defined? I mean, if ROAR just ceased to exist the only thing that could potentially be hurt by their departure is the spec classes, right? Is there something else that I am missing?
IFMAR has technical specifications but I believe that there are based on the blocs individual rules. I don't know how much they create on their own.

A track could easily run IFMAR rules of EFRA or BRCA for that matter.
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:18 PM   #197
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I believe that chart shows expenses due to legal defense fees in 2013.
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:19 PM   #198
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2014 will probably show a boost in membership fees, but that is only because people renewed to vote out the leadership.
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:28 PM   #199
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I'm sorry, I think it just comes down to common sense here. The excomm needs to use simple common sense and look at the years Eric has been a ROAR member. Look at how involved he's been in the RC industry. If he is the majority vote he should win. Stop playing a petty game with renewal dates to suit your own agenda.

Jon- That put a bow on what I am thinking as well. We are talking about a person that have been involved in ROAR and RC for a long time. EA has brought about interest and memberships. From many RC insiders who post on this site, EA would be a welcome face at the ROAR table. I think we get in our own way to many times when it comes to promoting and evolving our hobby/sport. Long time racer who hates to see the direction of our sanctioning body here in the US is going.
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:05 PM   #200
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Default ROAR Has many issues.....but not 1 fix

What I want to know is, what are the motives of those in office now? They have done NOTHING to help the hobby, they show no signs whatsoever of making any improvements to help the hobby, everything just continues to go downhill. What are they going to do to help us? Can they share that information with us. NO, for some reason they do and say nothing. You are DQ'ing someone for some made-up BS reason to hold a position nobody wants you in. That, to me, is just SHADY!

Eric and I don't see Eye to Eye, at least not recently but I do know that Eric would do something. Everyone knows Eric would try to do something, that is just what Eric does. Eric is involved, knows his fellow racers, goes to the big events and makes him available to other racers regularly on this site. The People in office now do nothing, they have no plans to do anything, not many people know them and quite honestly I have never seen them post one thing on this site. I'm sure they do, as I only run On-Road but still feel comfortable saying that are not "available" as Eric has been. Not too many people are.

If you want to stay in office, share some ideas, tell us what you would like to do, tell us what you would do to make things better, ideas to increase National Race attendance, anything........you share nothing......open up. If you are not going to let someone in to achieve your own agenda, tell us what it is. You may earn some legitimate votes if you do.
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:16 PM   #201
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What our club would do in the absence of an on-going ROAR.

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My local carpet club is a ROAR club. As I understand it, ROAR offers us: 1) rules, 2) approvals for motors, ESCs, batteries, bodies, 3) insurance, 4) worlds.

1) Rules (class specs) don't seem like a difficult thing to replace. They've been pretty much stable since I started racing in 2009. VTA, USGT, and USF1 have showed that ROAR isn't the only one capable of defining a successful rules set that racers will get behind.

Yes, we have rule sets for some classes that aren't strictly ROAR copy. But, underneath is the fundamental set of parameters in the ROAR rulebook. We'd stick with those.

2) Approvals. This might be the sticky one. Even non-ROAR rules packages have a tendency to refer to ROAR when it comes to approvals. There are also business implications for many companies, because approvals drive purchasing, which drives event sponsorship, which drives the health of the industry and the hobby. This is where the money is, and thus where the stakes are highest. I have no idea how difficult it would be for another organization to replace ROAR in this capacity, but given events of the last few years (D3.5 fiasco, Orca ban, blinky mode software...), the bar wouldn't seem to be unapproachably high.

Without an ongoing ROAR compliance regimen (motors, batteries, bodies) we would probably piggyback on some other organization's efforts: BRCA for instance. Motors and ESC's would be tough. I think we'd pretty quickly come around to the same model as USVTA and adopt a single motor for our 17.5 spec classes. ESC's? Again, we'd either have to open back up or we'd have to go with the ETS model and adopt a single product. I really can't imagine going back to pre-blinky speeds for Stock. I'm sure we'd go single vendor.

3) Insurance. What does it actually take to get a policy to replace ROAR's? I'm sure it's not rocket science, but just a matter of making numbers work in terms of policy cost versus club / member count and membership price.

For our temp track program, ROAR offers the best venue insurance by far (I've given it a good shop-around.) In its absence, we could find our own insurance, but the costs would be passed on to our racers in higher entry fees roughly to the tune of $5 additional per night per racer. The club and individual membership covers our 20+ night season far more affordably. For everyone. And this does not include the much greater paperwork burden of managing an insurance program in-house. Some lucky volunteer would get to slog through that one throughout the year.

4) Worlds. There aren't very many racers from any given club that will qualify for worlds and go. Our club wouldn't fall apart if no-one went to worlds. But having a member go to worlds (or nats, or IIC, etc) lets the rest of the club succeed vicariously to a certain degree, and it energizes people, so it's not completely irrelevant. Obviously club racing doesn't qualify you for worlds, but it's clubs that bid to host nats. What if literally no-one submitted bids to host on-road Nationals, so the races simply didn't happen? Would that force IFMAR to qualify people differently?

I can't forecast the fate of IFMAR if ROAR were to fold up. Behind the curtain, I'm sure ROAR would be sorely missed. In any event, there would be no governing body to offer up a credible "national championship" title. BS on those who say it doesn't mean anything. Everyone knows what national champion means. At every nationals I've attended, the titles have been fiercely contested. If they don't mean anything, you couldn't tell it on the track.
Strong Disclaimer: None of the above is to imply an opinion on late events related to EA's bid for office.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:09 PM   #202
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Oh good lord, more controversy.

Full disclosure: I am not currently a member so can't vote anyway. If I was, I would not vote for Eric because I don't really know the guy. I know only two things about him. 1. He builds some good motors and 2. He was one of a few people that sued ROAR. So I would have voted for Pond.

That being said, this sounds a bit petty to me. If there was any way for me to support his reinstatement or whatever on to the ballot, I would gladly do it. Let him run.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:12 PM   #203
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All I have to say is the guy has been a roar member over 20 years now
That's gotta count for something !!!
I don't want to re cast my vote but when I do it will be for EA again .
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:24 PM   #204
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I want to try to explain at least my personal decision to vote against allowing Eric Anderson’s candidacy (I am Technical director) When a write in candidate comes up, the bylaws do require the candidate fulfill some requirements. I realize everyone posting here assumes that the Excomm was “out to get” Eric, however, the rules require inquiries as to whether he satisfies the requirements. Eric’s previous service in the capacity of region director or electric committee was unclear. Why? There are not records going back that far of every individual’s service. Is that ROAR’s fault? Yes. Dawn Sanchez. who was President, did vouch for Eric and that was accepted.

As to Eric’s continual ROAR membership, he clearly did not keep continual membership for the previous year. Even with a 30 day grace period, he was not continual, as his membership fee was received in early November. As to the membership cards posted here, they were backdated. That should not have been done. It has happened, especially in the case of industry affiliates, who receive a personal membership as part of their affiliate membership, for the purpose of product approval continuity. It cannot continue due to situations such as this. Obviously it was done in the spirit of cooperation and goodwill but it creates more trouble.

As far as notification of lapsing membership, this is on every member’s card in the form of the expiration date in the lower right hand corner.

I felt in light of the bylaws, I had to vote no. Before the issues had arisen, I assumed Eric would be elected president due to the support displayed on rctech. Like any other member, I have only one vote to cast in the election, and that is the way I want to express myself. However, in the end, this is a rules organization and I can only make my decision based on the rules, the bylaws, in this case.

I certainly think ROAR can improve on its performance. Some of the above examples prove this is the case. At the same time, I’d like to see specific problems that posters here have. I asked about this before, but nothing was said.

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Please list your grievances. Seriously, since it would be good to hear what is wrong.
Mostly, I hear ROAR sucks or whatever. That’s pretty nebulous. Most people involved are trying to be helpful, but there are only so many hours in the day. Beyond that, it’s hard to always see what the issues are. I try to go to the races I can, but I can’t be everywhere, time or money wise.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:28 PM   #205
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That was a joyous read.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:40 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
I want to try to explain at least my personal decision to vote against allowing Eric Anderson’s candidacy (I am Technical director) When a write in candidate comes up, the bylaws do require the candidate fulfill some requirements. I realize everyone posting here assumes that the Excomm was “out to get” Eric, however, the rules require inquiries as to whether he satisfies the requirements. Eric’s previous service in the capacity of region director or electric committee was unclear. Why? There are not records going back that far of every individual’s service. Is that ROAR’s fault? Yes. Dawn Sanchez. who was President, did vouch for Eric and that was accepted.

As to Eric’s continual ROAR membership, he clearly did not keep continual membership for the previous year. Even with a 30 day grace period, he was not continual, as his membership fee was received in early November. As to the membership cards posted here, they were backdated. That should not have been done. It has happened, especially in the case of industry affiliates, who receive a personal membership as part of their affiliate membership, for the purpose of product approval continuity. It cannot continue due to situations such as this. Obviously it was done in the spirit of cooperation and goodwill but it creates more trouble.

As far as notification of lapsing membership, this is on every member’s card in the form of the expiration date in the lower right hand corner.

I felt in light of the bylaws, I had to vote no. Before the issues had arisen, I assumed Eric would be elected president due to the support displayed on rctech. Like any other member, I have only one vote to cast in the election, and that is the way I want to express myself. However, in the end, this is a rules organization and I can only make my decision based on the rules, the bylaws, in this case.

I certainly think ROAR can improve on its performance. Some of the above examples prove this is the case. At the same time, I’d like to see specific problems that posters here have. I asked about this before, but nothing was said.



Mostly, I hear ROAR sucks or whatever. That’s pretty nebulous. Most people involved are trying to be helpful, but there are only so many hours in the day. Beyond that, it’s hard to always see what the issues are. I try to go to the races I can, but I can’t be everywhere, time or money wise.
Can ROAR prove there was a lapse beyond the stated grace and that he was contacted by the administrator as you all have stated? Just because you all say it was so does not mean it's true without proof. According to his membership cards there was no lapse or extended lapse. Prove otherwise.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:42 PM   #207
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I want to try to explain at least my personal decision to vote against allowing Eric Andersonís candidacy (I am Technical director) When a write in candidate comes up, the bylaws do require the candidate fulfill some requirements. I realize everyone posting here assumes that the Excomm was ďout to getĒ Eric, however, the rules require inquiries as to whether he satisfies the requirements. Ericís previous service in the capacity of region director or electric committee was unclear. Why? There are not records going back that far of every individualís service. Is that ROARís fault? Yes. Dawn Sanchez. who was President, did vouch for Eric and that was accepted.

As to Ericís continual ROAR membership, he clearly did not keep continual membership for the previous year. Even with a 30 day grace period, he was not continual, as his membership fee was received in early November. As to the membership cards posted here, they were backdated. That should not have been done. It has happened, especially in the case of industry affiliates, who receive a personal membership as part of their affiliate membership, for the purpose of product approval continuity. It cannot continue due to situations such as this. Obviously it was done in the spirit of cooperation and goodwill but it creates more trouble.

As far as notification of lapsing membership, this is on every memberís card in the form of the expiration date in the lower right hand corner.

I felt in light of the bylaws, I had to vote no. Before the issues had arisen, I assumed Eric would be elected president due to the support displayed on rctech. Like any other member, I have only one vote to cast in the election, and that is the way I want to express myself. However, in the end, this is a rules organization and I can only make my decision based on the rules, the bylaws, in this case.

I certainly think ROAR can improve on its performance. Some of the above examples prove this is the case. At the same time, Iíd like to see specific problems that posters here have. I asked about this before, but nothing was said.



Mostly, I hear ROAR sucks or whatever. Thatís pretty nebulous. Most people involved are trying to be helpful, but there are only so many hours in the day. Beyond that, itís hard to always see what the issues are. I try to go to the races I can, but I canít be everywhere, time or money wise.
The bylaw in question is written in an ambiguous manner and can be interpreted in two ways. That causes an issue and with all the problems ROAR has had over the years it would seem there is in fact a "good ole boys club" for lack of a better term. If ROAR has any fortitude they would take another look at this matter and for the good of ROAR and rc racers in general they would allow Eric to continue to be a write in candidate.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:01 PM   #208
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:20 PM   #209
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Opps Fred's post disappeared.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:25 PM   #210
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Get your popcorn! Popcorn right here! Hot popcorn!
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