R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-17-2014, 02:10 PM   #181
Team EAM
 
EAMotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 8,884
Trader Rating: 75 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to EAMotorsports
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Hmmmm.........

Interesting picture.

I do know that membership fees are handled by the ROAR administrator. The administrator is a non-voting member of the excomm. The current administrator has been in this position for some time, and he is extremely diligent in his position.

Apparently, when you renewed (your picture doesn't show that), the administrator back dated your membership to your original join date. That says to me you've been a continuous member for a year.

I've had communications with Steve Pond and Steve Mruk in the past. They both seem like good guys who are trying to do something for RC racing. I don't know what they have against you running, unless they have something in mind and your recent interest lacks sincerity. If it was me, I'd be like "he wants it, he can have it!!!"

Did someone really compare the United States Constitution to the ROAR by-laws???? Dude, you know we're talking about racing toy cars for bowling trophies, right?
Hey Jim,

Yes they did back date it as a "courtesy" but once all this was brought up they said I was no longer allowed that "courtesy". So my next question is as someone else posted. Are they shorting every member a week, month, 2 months of their membership dues for a "courtesy"?

And by no means do I think Fred has done any of this intentionally at all. Fred is actually one of the few that have done a ton of good for ROAR through all his years!

EA
__________________
Contact Us
Team EAM, Our Facebook
Xray | RCAmerica | Hudy | Apex RC | ProSpec America | Killer Concepts | AVID | Futaba.
EAMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:10 PM   #182
Tech Elite
 
Fred Hubbard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Inglewood, CA
Posts: 2,681
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Hmmmm.........

Interesting picture.

I do know that membership fees are handled by the ROAR administrator. The administrator is a non-voting member of the excomm. The current administrator has been in this position for some time, and he is extremely diligent in his position.

Apparently, when you renewed (your picture doesn't show that), the administrator back dated your membership to your original join date. That says to me you've been a continuous member for a year.

I've had communications with Steve Pond and Steve Mruk in the past. They both seem like good guys who are trying to do something for RC racing. I don't know what they have against you running, unless they have something in mind and your recent interest lacks sincerity. If it was me, I'd be like "he wants it, he can have it!!!"

Did someone really compare the United States Constitution to the ROAR by-laws???? Dude, you know we're talking about racing toy cars for bowling trophies, right?
Why not compare ROAR's bylaws to the Constitution?!?!?! If it's just all about "toy cars for bowling trophies" then why should they reap the benefits of a 501(c)(x) organization. What should happen is that ROAR should be punished like other 501(c)(x) nonprofits for their abusive tactics!!!
__________________
Goodwine Racing - RC America - XRAY - HUDY - Sanwa - Motiv - GravityRC - BN Racing
Fred Hubbard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:20 PM   #183
Tech Master
 
samnelso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Posts: 1,751
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

*** this was a reply to another post that was apparently deleted, so sorry if it all the sudden seems out of context***

ROAR Purpose - Article 1, section C: "The purpose of ROAR is to promote and regulate the sport of radio controlled scale model car racing, and further the general interests of all persons engaged in the sport."

ROAR has its place. If we can fix it, that seems the most logical choice over scraping it and starting fresh. If all racers boycotted ROAR national and world events that cuts their yearly revenues by over half. Their bank could sustain that hit for less than two years and the organization would then fold.

Personally, I don't want to see ROAR fold, I want to see if rejuvenated with some fresh blood and some new ideas. Despite how bad, ROAR has name recognition and I believe the organization would improve very quickly under EA's leadership, with their reputation would quickly following. ROAR would see it in their balance sheet and racers would see it all the way from world events to national, regional, and trickling all the way down to the club level. Even though the club races may not strictly follow ROAR rules, they are usually influenced by them. Getting some passion into the leadership position would be quickly felt throughout the RC community.

The ROAR members, the ones that are the target audience for ROAR's self-declared purpose, need a voice to effect change. Boycotting is a definite valuable tactic, but it should not be our overall strategy. We should speak up, as we are now, and show that electing EA, a well-respected RC ambassador and passionate successful industry business owner, will improve the organization in direct response to ROAR's purpose and bottom line.

BTW, here is a overview plot of ROAR financials over the past 5 years. Pretty constant.



***Sorry if this post all the sudden seems out of context, it was a reply to another post that has apparently since been deleted***

.
__________________
Team Associated | Reedy | Airtronics

RC Excitement: Fitchburg, MA | RC Madness: Enfield, CT | Horsham RC

Last edited by samnelso; 11-17-2014 at 02:35 PM.
samnelso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:21 PM   #184
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 2,512
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

There's a lot of hearsay about what happened with the votes and eligibility, and internet lawyering about wording of bylaws. The only thing I've actually learned from this thread is that ROAR's promotion director, a position I'd presume involves a lot of communication, has the internet presence of a 12-year-old.

My local carpet club is a ROAR club. As I understand it, ROAR offers us: 1) rules, 2) approvals for motors, ESCs, batteries, bodies, 3) insurance, 4) worlds.

1) Rules (class specs) don't seem like a difficult thing to replace. They've been pretty much stable since I started racing in 2009. VTA, USGT, and USF1 have showed that ROAR isn't the only one capable of defining a successful rules set that racers will get behind.

2) Approvals. This might be the sticky one. Even non-ROAR rules packages have a tendency to refer to ROAR when it comes to approvals. There are also business implications for many companies, because approvals drive purchasing, which drives event sponsorship, which drives the health of the industry and the hobby. This is where the money is, and thus where the stakes are highest. I have no idea how difficult it would be for another organization to replace ROAR in this capacity, but given events of the last few years (D3.5 fiasco, Orca ban, blinky mode software...), the bar wouldn't seem to be unapproachably high.

3) Insurance. What does it actually take to get a policy to replace ROAR's? I'm sure it's not rocket science, but just a matter of making numbers work in terms of policy cost versus club / member count and membership price.

4) Worlds. There aren't very many racers from any given club that will qualify for worlds and go. Our club wouldn't fall apart if no-one went to worlds. But having a member go to worlds (or nats, or IIC, etc) lets the rest of the club succeed vicariously to a certain degree, and it energizes people, so it's not completely irrelevant. Obviously club racing doesn't qualify you for worlds, but it's clubs that bid to host nats. What if literally no-one submitted bids to host on-road Nationals, so the races simply didn't happen? Would that force IFMAR to qualify people differently?

-Mike
grippgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:24 PM   #185
Tech Fanatic
 
ralph m's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 900
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml View Post
I just love all the people who suddenly have law degrees.

"for a year prior to the election" means the person should be a member for the year before the election.
OK Jim, let's see your degree....didn't think so.

The by-laws clearly state "a year" not "the year" prior to election.
__________________
tqwire.com
ralph m is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:25 PM   #186
Tech Master
 
samnelso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Posts: 1,751
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wishbone View Post
Sam, a petition is a nice gesture but isn't worth the paper its written on. By the statements posted here via some of the Excom and directors the source of this problem needs to be taken care of "in house" thats why the non-confidence vote should be used, but this also has to come from within the organization too.
I have not been following the thread, so I've missed much of the conversation. I would be in support of a confidence vote. Per the by-laws the Pres would need a EXCOM majority to vote non-confidence. I guess then our purpose is to urge the vote and push them in that direction? Even then, the office would be vacant and reelection would only occur via qualifications set in the by-laws. It gets tricky again to get EA in this term. That is, if he still wants in. Again, I have not been following the thread, so sorry if I'm just opening old wounds.
__________________
Team Associated | Reedy | Airtronics

RC Excitement: Fitchburg, MA | RC Madness: Enfield, CT | Horsham RC
samnelso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:37 PM   #187
Tech Elite
 
olhipster1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Asgard
Posts: 3,904
Trader Rating: 89 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to olhipster1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnelso View Post
I have not been following the thread, so I've missed much of the conversation. I would be in support of a confidence vote. Per the by-laws the Pres would need a majority to vote non-confidence. I guess then our purpose is to urge the vote and push them in that direction? Even then, the office would be vacant and reelection would only occur via qualifications set in the by-laws. It gets tricky again to get EA in this term. That is, if he still wants in. Again, I have not been following the thread, so sorry if I'm just opening old wounds.
didn't that happen in StarWars...look what happened there....
just kidding....needed some light chuckles in this heated thread...

EA for Prez....i'm getting shirts made.
__________________
everything is Cause and effect
every Action has a reaction.
"I drank too much wine - I must take a p!ss"
CAUSE and EFFECT
olhipster1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:41 PM   #188
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Marietta, Ga
Posts: 2,087
Trader Rating: 57 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Did someone really compare the United States Constitution to the ROAR by-laws???? Dude, you know we're talking about racing toy cars for bowling trophies, right?
It was in response to your post right above it to prove even the most important document in the history of the country has a similar law and is interpreted exactly as it is stated.

Face it, their bylaws are worded in a way that keeps EA in the running.

Also,

"The President and Vice President must have been a member in good standing for a year prior to election."

"Have been" is also in the past. Again solidifying that "a year" can be any year in the past.
PROMODVETTE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:44 PM   #189
Tech Master
 
samnelso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Posts: 1,751
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olhipster1 View Post
didn't that happen in StarWars...look what happened there....
just kidding....needed some light chuckles in this heated thread...

EA for Prez....i'm getting shirts made.
Believe it or not, despite the nerd that I am I have not managed to make it through a single StarWars movie. No idea what you're talking about, but I assume it's
__________________
Team Associated | Reedy | Airtronics

RC Excitement: Fitchburg, MA | RC Madness: Enfield, CT | Horsham RC
samnelso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:47 PM   #190
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,864
Default

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
If it was easy it would already have been done. And if you can't get people to volunteer to make something better, how can you get people to volunteer to make something else better.
There's a lot of hearsay about what happened with the votes and eligibility, and internet lawyering about wording of bylaws. The only thing I've actually learned from this thread is that ROAR's promotion director, a position I'd presume involves a lot of communication, has the internet presence of a 12-year-old.

My local carpet club is a ROAR club. As I understand it, ROAR offers us: 1) rules, 2) approvals for motors, ESCs, batteries, bodies, 3) insurance, 4) worlds.

1) Rules (class specs) don't seem like a difficult thing to replace. They've been pretty much stable since I started racing in 2009. VTA, USGT, and USF1 have showed that ROAR isn't the only one capable of defining a successful rules set that racers will get behind.
These are not complete rules. They are good but they assume a ROAR legal TC chassis, motor specs/dimensions, battery specs dimensions, zero timing ESCs, and some others.

2) Approvals. This might be the sticky one. Even non-ROAR rules packages have a tendency to refer to ROAR when it comes to approvals. There are also business implications for many companies, because approvals drive purchasing, which drives event sponsorship, which drives the health of the industry and the hobby. This is where the money is, and thus where the stakes are highest. I have no idea how difficult it would be for another organization to replace ROAR in this capacity, but given events of the last few years (D3.5 fiasco, Orca ban, blinky mode software...), the bar wouldn't seem to be unapproachably high.
Someone has to test products, maintain a database of legal products, and process the submissions. Obviously it is not easy or else it would be getting done.

3) Insurance. What does it actually take to get a policy to replace ROAR's? I'm sure it's not rocket science, but just a matter of making numbers work in terms of policy cost versus club / member count and membership price.
This should be pretty easy to find elsewhere although it might be costly for a single club.

4) Worlds. There aren't very many racers from any given club that will qualify for worlds and go. Our club wouldn't fall apart if no-one went to worlds. But having a member go to worlds (or nats, or IIC, etc) lets the rest of the club succeed vicariously to a certain degree, and it energizes people, so it's not completely irrelevant. Obviously club racing doesn't qualify you for worlds, but it's clubs that bid to host nats. What if literally no-one submitted bids to host on-road Nationals, so the races simply didn't happen? Would that force IFMAR to qualify people differently?
ROAR would adapt. There might not be clubs not willing to host a Nats but for enough $ they would come out of the woodwork.

-Mike
__________________
www.reedypower.com
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:53 PM   #191
Tech Elite
 
artwork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Thornton, CO
Posts: 3,045
Trader Rating: 54 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnelso View Post
*** this was a reply to another post that was apparently deleted, so sorry if it all the sudden seems out of context***

ROAR Purpose - Article 1, section C: "The purpose of ROAR is to promote and regulate the sport of radio controlled scale model car racing, and further the general interests of all persons engaged in the sport."

ROAR has its place. If we can fix it, that seems the most logical choice over scraping it and starting fresh. If all racers boycotted ROAR national and world events that cuts their yearly revenues by over half. Their bank could sustain that hit for less than two years and the organization would then fold.

Personally, I don't want to see ROAR fold, I want to see if rejuvenated with some fresh blood and some new ideas. Despite how bad, ROAR has name recognition and I believe the organization would improve very quickly under EA's leadership, with their reputation would quickly following. ROAR would see it in their balance sheet and racers would see it all the way from world events to national, regional, and trickling all the way down to the club level. Even though the club races may not strictly follow ROAR rules, they are usually influenced by them. Getting some passion into the leadership position would be quickly felt throughout the RC community.

The ROAR members, the ones that are the target audience for ROAR's self-declared purpose, need a voice to effect change. Boycotting is a definite valuable tactic, but it should not be our overall strategy. We should speak up, as we are now, and show that electing EA, a well-respected RC ambassador and passionate successful industry business owner, will improve the organization in direct response to ROAR's purpose and bottom line.

BTW, here is a overview plot of ROAR financials over the past 5 years. Pretty constant.



***Sorry if this post all the sudden seems out of context, it was a reply to another post that has apparently since been deleted***

.
In my world that chart depicts a failing business...BTW what happened in 2012 that caused such a huge spike in the expenses? That is a pretty significant trend in the wrong direction if you look at revenue vs. expenses.
__________________
Xray | Hudy | Sanwa | R1 Wurks | Avid | Protoform | Proline | 2mm Designs
artwork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:55 PM   #192
Super Moderator
 
Kraig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sun Prairie, WI
Posts: 6,303
Trader Rating: 69 (100%+)
Default

Rick, non-insurance related question for you. Isn't it really IFMAR that has the chassis dimension, motor, tire and battery rules defined? I mean, if ROAR just ceased to exist the only thing that could potentially be hurt by their departure is the spec classes, right? Is there something else that I am missing?
__________________
There is great need for a sarcasm font.

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.

Sometimes I post just to look at my avatar.
Kraig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 02:58 PM   #193
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,864
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by artwork View Post
In my world that chart depicts a failing business...BTW what happened in 2012 that caused such a huge spike in the expenses? That is a pretty significant trend in the wrong direction if you look at revenue vs. expenses.
I believe that chart shows expenses due to legal defense fees in 2013.
__________________
www.reedypower.com
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 03:04 PM   #194
Tech Master
 
samnelso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Posts: 1,751
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by artwork View Post
In my world that chart depicts a failing business...BTW what happened in 2012 that caused such a huge spike in the expenses? That is a pretty significant trend in the wrong direction if you look at revenue vs. expenses.
I hear ya man.

Nationals, worlds, some website redesign, but legal and accounting expenses were the majority... $2,020 in '12, $40,534 in '13.

Same data, but column chart. The year structure in the line chart was misleading. The expenses went up in '13, not '12.

__________________
Team Associated | Reedy | Airtronics

RC Excitement: Fitchburg, MA | RC Madness: Enfield, CT | Horsham RC
samnelso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2014, 03:06 PM   #195
Regional Moderator
 
Jon Carlson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 2,818
Trader Rating: 45 (100%+)
Default

I'm sorry, I think it just comes down to common sense here. The excomm needs to use simple common sense and look at the years Eric has been a ROAR member. Look at how involved he's been in the RC industry. If he is the majority vote he should win. Stop playing a petty game with renewal dates to suit your own agenda.
Jon Carlson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:43 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0