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Old 10-20-2014, 04:41 PM   #1
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Default Brushless vs Brushed motors

A forty year old getting back into the game after essentially 20 years away. Seen a poster or two I think I recognize from back in the day. Hopefully there won't be any hate posts if you figure out who I am, I was a bit motivated to win back then lol.

The struggle I am having is that the brushless motors I have run, 21.5 in an LM1 and 25.5 in a VTA, and they feel gutless. The power curve on these are just bizarre. While they do seem to have more punch, it all appears to be lost due to the low revs. Both motors to get them fast you have to gear the snot out of them and you lose a ton of punch. The LM feels spongy coming out of the corners. I have never felt this before with a pan car.

It didn't help that the first time I raced last year I ran a TC3 with a green machine, and have been chasing that power curve ever since. I am told that this is really only an issue with the motors I listed, but man running those has me wishing for old technology. Anyone else have or see this issue?

I am hoping to do a compare in the LM with a couple of old mod brushed motors I have and a 13.5 to see which is better. I am hoping that the 13.5 has enough revs that I don't have to gear so aggressively and lose all my punch.

Chris
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:25 PM   #2
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I understand the way you feel, and I also have run a 27t monster horsepower in a tub tc4(5.98fdr) against the current crop of 17.5 motors... The old brushed motor feel is not available with brushless, but you will not miss it too much because you'll be concentrating on getting faster... If you were a brushed motor tuner, that switch to brushless won't help at all , but there are still a few things that are adjustable...
All in all, it's all about expanding our knowledge of new technologies to maximize fun...
The 17.5t class today is pretty stacked, and pretty fast too.... Transitions are never easy, but will happen sooner or later....
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:45 PM   #3
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Everything is gutless in 1s blinky until you get to 10.5 or so. 17.5 2s has a bit of rip but nothing brushed like until you get to 13.5.

Boosted may have been a bit crazy but the cars were so much more fun to drive. 1/12th with 10.5 and boost, that was fun.
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:50 PM   #4
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Very true about 1S... 4 cells are around 4.85-4.9 volts and a 1s is 4.2
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Old 10-20-2014, 05:53 PM   #5
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And the only power curve now is because of boost... You won't find the feel you remember anymore, but like you I miss the days of a motor that made power off the corner then pulled that way for the length of a straightaway
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
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And the only power curve now is because of boost... You won't find the feel you remember anymore, but like you I miss the days of a motor that made power off the corner then pulled that way for the length of a straightaway
I remember the late eighties in Palentine, a huge 1/12th scale track, 1/2 throttle max with 14 trips and the like, and hope the sce's lasted. Man though they wre fast, we still have our R&R dyno I spent too many hours dialing in my on and off road motors on, but man it was worth it.

Going to be running the GT12 class, a little nervous with what I have heard about 1 cell 12th scale.

The biggest bummer to me is that the on road stuff seems to be more about motor tuning than driving so far with the classes I have run, assuming driving skill is close. Just hoping the LM can hang with the roadkill's in pro 10 class, this may be the only class I can get that feel back
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:23 PM   #7
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wishing for new brushes every day and truing the comm???

no thanks

Just run real motors an old 27T isnt going to compare to a slow 21.5 or 25.5


stock is 17.5 now and the laps times are much faster than old stock, much

also you have to tune your esc, turn the punch up, adjust your radio curve. You will start to love the time you now have for setup instead of motor work
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:47 PM   #8
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wishing for new brushes every day and truing the comm???

no thanks

Just run real motors an old 27T isnt going to compare to a slow 21.5 or 25.5


stock is 17.5 now and the laps times are much faster than old stock, much

also you have to tune your esc, turn the punch up, adjust your radio curve. You will start to love the time you now have for setup instead of motor work
Was stuck in blinky classes, and will be too with the GT12. The green machine was a lot quicker then the VTA's I was running against, just didn't have good enough tires that first week out to get the power down.

Brushes lasted a while, and the comm truing wasn't that big of deal and wasn't needed that often. What sucked was the batteries, their were times I was close to dumping in off road.

Will run the 21.5 in non blinky when I run the pro 10 class too and see what I pick up before I drop the 13.5 in.

Just remembered some mini guys were telling me the old 540 is a better option than the 21.5 most of the time, and we used to think those 540's were garbage
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Old 10-20-2014, 06:58 PM   #9
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With blinky and the limited RPM range what you have described is the result.

You can try more can timing and a smaller pinion within the tuning range which helps a touch.

I think if there is the option of a boosted class when you race try it, I think you will be very happy with the feel.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:02 PM   #10
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I'm with you.. Brushed was more fun because you could work on them and comm lathes were cool... Time between races went faster when you had real maintenance to do.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:04 PM   #11
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What batteries are you running ??? What's your green machine motor gearing???
In mini, some guys use these 21.5t brushless motors that have ridiculous timing(60*+) to beat the silvercans down the straights, but they endup flipping a lot more...
If you use lipo to power that green machine at 5.8fdr, it will be fast enough to beat a lot of 17.5 tc's.....
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:13 PM   #12
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What batteries are you running ??? What's your green machine motor gearing???
In mini, some guys use these 21.5t brushless motors that have ridiculous timing(60*+) to beat the silvercans down the straights, but they endup flipping a lot more...
If you use lipo to power that green machine at 6.3fdr, it will be fast enough to beat a lot of 17.5 tc's.....
It was a lipo, and it was fun with the drift car ancient tires. I remember a bigger spur gear than I have now and and at least ten teeth less on the pinion.

This has been helpful, so a 25.5 is dumb slow, 21.5 somewhat comparable to a silver can, and 17.5 what I would remember as stock. Anything lower should remind me of the modified classes I loved to run

Curious why spec blinky classes like the LM don't go with the 17.5 instead, the 21.5 just seemed a little slow, and this would match the old stock handout days
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I'm with you.. Brushed was more fun because you could work on them and comm lathes were cool... Time between races went faster when you had real maintenance to do.
I think we spent more time wrenching period because of this, but I was way more serious back then. That and the 12th scale talent down there was crazy. A couple of us WI guys would run decent down at Palentine, one had the on road stuff down way better than me and I believe is still kicking some butt nowadays

We still found ways to have fun too, especially at the big races
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:21 PM   #14
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21.5T brushless motors got to sell too...lol... I remembered gearing my tc4 27t monster horsepower at 6.2fdr ,and making the Cmain in stock 17.5t, but my car was superheavy(1480grams), and not setup at all.... I had fun though, but those I passed were not happy at all....lol.....
I still own all my brushed stuff, and can still run a 27t if I wanted... No way I am selling...lol...
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:26 PM   #15
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I love the sound of brushed motors. I've destroyed at least 5 brushed motors with 2s lipos so be careful. Including a trinity green machine.
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