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Old 10-20-2014, 07:31 PM   #16
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Im a little confused about how you guys are coming up with this. Ive been running since the days of sealed endbell handout stock motors at races and 1500NiCds. I remember cutting comms and brushes in stock, and 3300's were over $100 a matched set. I too took a break and came back tk the wonderful world of lipo and brushless.

1 maybe 2 lipos per car, not 4+ nimh for the day. And a set it and forget it motor. Oh and more runtime than battery. Roar should really increase a race length. But have you read some other threads, they talk about his same issue. 17.5 is not what stock used to be. Its as fast or faster than mod used to be. 21.5 is what a 19t was and 25.5 about what 27t was. This is all on 2s. If your VTA is that slow, you got a dog
motor or something else is wrong.

I dont miss the brushed days one bit. Especially since brushless amd blinky took away most of the ability to build cheater one run motors.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
Im a little confused about how you guys are coming up with this. Ive been running since the days of sealed endbell handout stock motors at races and 1500NiCds. I remember cutting comms and brushes in stock, and 3300's were over $100 a matched set. I too took a break and came back tk the wonderful world of lipo and brushless.

1 maybe 2 lipos per car, not 4+ nimh for the day. And a set it and forget it motor. Oh and more runtime than battery. Roar should really increase a race length. But have you read some other threads, they talk about his same issue. 17.5 is not what stock used to be. Its as fast or faster than mod used to be. 21.5 is what a 19t was and 25.5 about what 27t was. This is all on 2s. If your VTA is that slow, you got a dog
motor or something else is wrong.

I dont miss the brushed days one bit. Especially since brushless amd blinky took away most of the ability to build cheater one run motors.
I agree with most except the VTA sentence.

VTA with a 25.5 is SLOW. It just is. A Team Scream 27T will eat UP a 25.5 like nothing. I can't race that. I just can't understand why we can't moves stock to 13.5 and VTA to 17.5.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:42 PM   #18
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Look around and you will find a ton of cheating.... I don't need a poll to know that the hobby is dead compared to 20 years ago. If everything is better and cheaper then you should ask yourself where everyone has gone. There are few new guys that stick around so if something doesn't change then the hobby will die with us, I'm certainly not suggesting that we go backwards in time but there was something to be said for guys being able to work for wins with no money versus working and spending just to be competitive.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:47 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by 2uzferunner03 View Post
I love the sound of brushed motors. I've destroyed at least 5 brushed motors with 2s lipos so be careful. Including a trinity green machine.
I have a custom CAM 16 triple that I will give a shot. I have a 'Team' Trinity 14 triple I will hold onto, that is/was one heck of a motor, if I only had the batteries back then to really exploit it. I could pull out a 9 double and see what happens lol. Got lots of brushes too. Hopefully the tekin gen 2 will hold up
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:59 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Racermac73 View Post
Look around and you will find a ton of cheating.... I don't need a poll to know that the hobby is dead compared to 20 years ago. If everything is better and cheaper then you should ask yourself where everyone has gone. There are few new guys that stick around so if something doesn't change then the hobby will die with us, I'm certainly not suggesting that we go backwards in time but there was something to be said for guys being able to work for wins with no money versus working and spending just to be competitive.
I agree 100 percent. Back in the day I was a privateer and I could run with and beat the likes of Cliff Lett, Matt Ledger, Losi, and the boys with off the shelf gear. 92 mod off road nats I believe I qualified 31st with the same off the shelf gear and one bobble cost me the A main. I believe there were 200 plus in 2 wheel mod, but I could be wrong on that, but it was a lot. Back then when I went to a race, having enough power was never an issue, nor did it seem to be for anyone else. Now the power difference between cars is huge.

I love the racing now, but the have versus have nots in speed in the spec style classes boggles the mind, maybe those classes should go fixed timing or something to even it out. Not sure what can be done to get more kids interested, but RC is not the only activity losing people. Too many screens to pull people away from the fun stuff we used to do

Wasn't bragging either, just saying it used to be a lot more even way back when
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:06 PM   #21
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I think you are forgetting that if you try to run 27t brushed nowadays with lipo, you will have to account for the drastic weight loss from 1500grams to 1380grams, which will make the 27t/19t/mod brushed run a lot faster than they used to..... I ran 27t lipo against 17.5t brushless, and there is not a huge difference, and mod brushed with lipo is wicked fast.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
Im a little confused about how you guys are coming up with this. Ive been running since the days of sealed endbell handout stock motors at races and 1500NiCds. I remember cutting comms and brushes in stock, and 3300's were over $100 a matched set. I too took a break and came back tk the wonderful world of lipo and brushless.

1 maybe 2 lipos per car, not 4+ nimh for the day. And a set it and forget it motor. Oh and more runtime than battery. Roar should really increase a race length. But have you read some other threads, they talk about his same issue. 17.5 is not what stock used to be. Its as fast or faster than mod used to be. 21.5 is what a 19t was and 25.5 about what 27t was. This is all on 2s. If your VTA is that slow, you got a dog
motor or something else is wrong.

I dont miss the brushed days one bit. Especially since brushless amd blinky took away most of the ability to build cheater one run motors.
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:16 PM   #22
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The economy has a lot to do with low turnouts. Just before it went south (2007 or so) I ran a dirt oval race with over 300 entries, local parking lot races were drawing 60 people or more and things were booming. Then it all vanished almost overnight and still hasn't returned.
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:24 PM   #23
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I agree 100 percent. Back in the day I was a privateer and I could run with and beat the likes of Cliff Lett, Matt Ledger, Losi, and the boys with off the shelf gear. 92 mod off road nats I believe I qualified 31st with the same off the shelf gear and one bobble cost me the A main. I believe there were 200 plus in 2 wheel mod, but I could be wrong on that, but it was a lot. Back then when I went to a race, having enough power was never an issue, nor did it seem to be for anyone else. Now the power difference between cars is huge.

I love the racing now, but the have versus have nots in speed in the spec style classes boggles the mind, maybe those classes should go fixed timing or something to even it out. Not sure what can be done to get more kids interested, but RC is not the only activity losing people. Too many screens to pull people away from the fun stuff we used to do

Wasn't bragging either, just saying it used to be a lot more even way back when
I wouldn't want to go back to brushed. If it wasn't for Lipo and brushless on road TC would no longer exist.

Bert is right, we did the same test earlier this year too, 27T brushed (pre loved motor) was almost identicle in speed to 17.5T brushless. I suspect the 27T brushed would be slightly faster if we had time to optimise spring tension and brushes.

Whilst things are better than they used to be they are not as good as they could be.

Very true about the cheaters and racers buying speed by spending large amounts of money though. This is largely related to blinky ESC classes.

With blinky classes motor wars are alive and well, in some respects it is no different to 10 years ago when it was round cell battery wars.

Asia, UK & Europe TC is going very well and they offer a open ESC/boosted 13.5T super stock class.

No motor wars closest racing in terms of power output/straight line speed I have seen not to mention the cheapest class of electric TC that I have raced since I started on road electric in 2003.

Give boosted a go you will really enjoy the feel.
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Old 10-21-2014, 03:12 AM   #24
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Your mixing apples and orangees. I am compairing brushed 6cell nimh to brushless 2s lipo. Of course a brushed is faster with lipo. The voltage is higher and the wieght is lower.

I will agree that there is more a speed difference within a spexc class than there used to be. But spending money isnt the same as cheating. But people spent money in the brushed days too. One run super tuned motors, team driver only matched cells. Keeping motors in liquid nitrogen or dry ice buckets until race time. Just solder and go. Difference is now not as many can afford it and yes there are lotsnof other things to do. Kids werent on playing xboxes and playstations in the late 90's and early 2000's like they are now. As for our own hobby we had more club racing and less "events" especially in offroad. Now it seems at least once a month, there is some sort of big race within a few hour drive that everyone wants to go to so the club scene is dying.

Our hobby is not dying, not by a long shot. Racing though is. Most people new to the hobby are getting things like the short courses. Cheap, ready to go, and can go anywhere. You can thank the traxxas tmaxx for starting that lovely trend. While TC's look cool, they are too detailed for the modern got to have it easy and now mentality that our culture has become. Also our culture hates rules now. Somehow we have gotten to a point where "I'm a Merican, you cant tell me I cant run a 4600kv on 4s, I wanna go fast. Even though its dangerous as hell and will probably destroy something." So they dont race, they just bash. And bashing is alive and well.
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Old 10-21-2014, 03:13 AM   #25
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And still I believe that brushed is still a way to run a stock competition, at least over here some Tamiya races are done with the Carson Cupmachine which is a very good motor without a huge spread in performance.

Racing blinky BL stock is always infected with cheats like shifted sensors, illegal motorparts, illegal software or a modify that the LED is always blinking. People are always saying there is nothing wrong but sadly there is too much of this going on.

But that is my opinion.....
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Old 10-21-2014, 03:49 AM   #26
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Some of that I have never heard of, but then I don't try and cheat.

So some of you experimentors out there, how bout this. In am effort to keep speed compairable, let look at 17.5 blinky vs 21.5 boosted. Both on a 2s TC. Run some laps with both and lwt us know the results. If times are comparable, we have to ask, why blinky.

From what I understand blinky was created to bring parity to the racing s
cene. It would seem that it hasin fact done the exact opposite. Imo the biggest reason Amercica has moved to 17.5 and away from mod is track size. Lap times are only marginally faster in mod. I think the second reason is laziness. We dont want to take the time find the right timing/boost combo for track. Just plug and play. Maybe the answer is to move away from blinky. It certainly wouldnt hurt my feelings any.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:06 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
Some of that I have never heard of, but then I don't try and cheat.

So some of you experimentors out there, how bout this. In am effort to keep speed compairable, let look at 17.5 blinky vs 21.5 boosted. Both on a 2s TC. Run some laps with both and lwt us know the results. If times are comparable, we have to ask, why blinky.

From what I understand blinky was created to bring parity to the racing s
cene. It would seem that it hasin fact done the exact opposite. Imo the biggest reason Amercica has moved to 17.5 and away from mod is track size. Lap times are only marginally faster in mod. I think the second reason is laziness. We dont want to take the time find the right timing/boost combo for track. Just plug and play. Maybe the answer is to move away from blinky. It certainly wouldnt hurt my feelings any.
The dirty secret in mod has always been that your not that much faster when you have a tight track layout in on road or off road. The reason I always favored modified classes is that it usually put everyone on an equal playing field and the cheaters wouldn't prosper. It was always a case in mod where speed wasn't an issue for everyone, off road was just about right, while 12th we did fight the old SCEs. Personally my issue back then was me, while I could drive a 12 th scale line most of the time I would still run like an off road guy for a lap or two and dump because of it.

I guess I am just not a fan of the spec racing, which is what the club does mostly, but hey racing is racing. This time I promised myself I wouldn't get too serious about it and just have fun this time around.

Now if I can get the silly Hotwire thing to work I will see how much more I can get out of the 21.5 in non blinky with some boost, will be interesting to see.
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:24 AM   #28
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It is always up and down with the Rc crowd.... They started with silvercans, then 27t trinity brushed,then brushless blinky 13.5, then 17.5, then 17.5 boosted, then 17.5 blinky, and maybe 21.5 blinky or back to brushed....lol..... It never ends in the US unlike Europe&Asia.... That's been costing the US a lot of Worlds titles..... Not practicing mod racing does not help the US win a Worlds title....
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:36 AM   #29
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When I was getting back into this I had a p2k2 pro I was using and it kept up with the 17.5 cars just fine in practice. If you like those low turn brushed mod motors I would get a decent 6 cell nimh pack for them. # purple comms and brushes.
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Old 10-21-2014, 06:43 AM   #30
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I have a few low turn brushed motors(4t to 10t) that can compete on small carpet tracks, but the mod turnout is really low.....
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