what's the matter with American racing?
10-13-2014, 12:22 PM
#61
One of my favorite threads, the bi-annual "why do we suck at onroad?" thread
I think I have some reasons, which I sure someone has mentioned already:
*Tracks - besides Kisimmee, how many are there? Tamiya, Time Zone WA, Leisure Hours IL , Toledo OH, Jackson NJ, Houston TX? 6-7 tracks in the US that are viable. I know there are more outdoor permanent tracks, but some are gas only, some are really small to run mod on. Tamiya you can't practice on unless you have a Tamiya car or it's a special event. It seems like in Europe every major town has a decent asphalt track....If I am wrong someone let me know.
*Barriers- "Anyone know what the barriers are made of?" Syndr0me- "The tears of drivers that race on US style tracks year round."
Nobody is helping anything using hard immoveable barriers if they want to promote faster classes. Destroying your car on a regular basis is kind of a bummer. Some people hate dots but The Gate built a couple dot tracks recently and it was awesome to race on.
*Drivers - Years ago all the offroad guys raced touring cars or even 1/12 as well at these races. Mark Pavidis had a real shot at winning the 2000 sedan WC and won the 200mm nitro WC with an NTC3 (everybody seems to forget this). Billy Easton, Todd Hodge, Kinwald etc. etc. Now the talent is in offroad along with all the sponsor $$$
*America is gigantic - You can run around central Europe and race ETS races. I'd like to know what the travel time is on that.
Chicago to Cleveland is a 6 hr drive. Chicago to St. Louis is 5-5 1/2 hrs. Chicago to Orlando is 20 -something hours or a plane ride. The point is even in a confined area like "the Midwest" you can take a day of driving just to get to the next big city. No to mention things like not having an on road track in Detroit so those guys have to go to Toledo.
So now you have a situation where guys like Paul L. and Hebert and Hardman really don't have many opportunities to race a full field. Leisure Hours is close to me and actually gets a mod turnout, simply because it is a huge curb asphalt track where you won't instantly blow your car up Pole Position style if you make a mistake. The thing is, a large part of the crowd goes offroad racing or whatever because the carpet track is 80 miles away and mod is no faster than 17.5 on that track anyway. Ideally, there would be a 100x50' carpet track to run on as well, but that's not reality.
I think I have some reasons, which I sure someone has mentioned already:
*Tracks - besides Kisimmee, how many are there? Tamiya, Time Zone WA, Leisure Hours IL , Toledo OH, Jackson NJ, Houston TX? 6-7 tracks in the US that are viable. I know there are more outdoor permanent tracks, but some are gas only, some are really small to run mod on. Tamiya you can't practice on unless you have a Tamiya car or it's a special event. It seems like in Europe every major town has a decent asphalt track....If I am wrong someone let me know.
*Barriers- "Anyone know what the barriers are made of?" Syndr0me- "The tears of drivers that race on US style tracks year round."
Nobody is helping anything using hard immoveable barriers if they want to promote faster classes. Destroying your car on a regular basis is kind of a bummer. Some people hate dots but The Gate built a couple dot tracks recently and it was awesome to race on.
*Drivers - Years ago all the offroad guys raced touring cars or even 1/12 as well at these races. Mark Pavidis had a real shot at winning the 2000 sedan WC and won the 200mm nitro WC with an NTC3 (everybody seems to forget this). Billy Easton, Todd Hodge, Kinwald etc. etc. Now the talent is in offroad along with all the sponsor $$$
*America is gigantic - You can run around central Europe and race ETS races. I'd like to know what the travel time is on that.
Chicago to Cleveland is a 6 hr drive. Chicago to St. Louis is 5-5 1/2 hrs. Chicago to Orlando is 20 -something hours or a plane ride. The point is even in a confined area like "the Midwest" you can take a day of driving just to get to the next big city. No to mention things like not having an on road track in Detroit so those guys have to go to Toledo.
So now you have a situation where guys like Paul L. and Hebert and Hardman really don't have many opportunities to race a full field. Leisure Hours is close to me and actually gets a mod turnout, simply because it is a huge curb asphalt track where you won't instantly blow your car up Pole Position style if you make a mistake. The thing is, a large part of the crowd goes offroad racing or whatever because the carpet track is 80 miles away and mod is no faster than 17.5 on that track anyway. Ideally, there would be a 100x50' carpet track to run on as well, but that's not reality.
10-13-2014, 12:26 PM
#62
Tech Master
It's too late. Your sarcastic solution or rule changes will not push back the tide. It will get worse before it gets better. Only then will the people that have the power to do so will change the scene.
10-13-2014, 12:34 PM
#63
*Barriers- "Anyone know what the barriers are made of?" Syndr0me- "The tears of drivers that race on US style tracks year round."
Nobody is helping anything using hard immoveable barriers if they want to promote faster classes. Destroying your car on a regular basis is kind of a bummer. Some people hate dots but The Gate built a couple dot tracks recently and it was awesome to race on.
Nobody is helping anything using hard immoveable barriers if they want to promote faster classes. Destroying your car on a regular basis is kind of a bummer. Some people hate dots but The Gate built a couple dot tracks recently and it was awesome to race on.
10-13-2014, 12:45 PM
#65
I think the issues are far more intricate than just a few answers, but I can give you some contributing factors:
1. Mod is hard. It takes time and dedication to get it done. There are few guys that can do it, simply because of either talent, skill, time or dedication. I know many claim a higher price, but I don't buy this. With modified racing, you simply allocate your budget on tires and drive train parts vs batteries and motors.
2.The track is unlike anything we drive on EVER. We simply don't race outdoors on 200ft tracks. We simply have so much catching up to do and learning on tracks the size of the WC track. People in other countries race outdoors on large tracks All the time.
3.The tires chosen sucked. Yeah, it's the same for everyone (but it's not). The europeans especially run on large, unprepped surfaces all the time. They have experience making crappy tires and/or bad surfaces work. We race on high bite carpet for the most part.
4. Asphalt is simply not as popular here. We have 1 big race per year on asphalt (Reedy Race) and then the ROAR nats.
Not making excuses for us, but given the conditions above , how can we have an expectation of performance when we simply are not prepared for it.
1. Mod is hard. It takes time and dedication to get it done. There are few guys that can do it, simply because of either talent, skill, time or dedication. I know many claim a higher price, but I don't buy this. With modified racing, you simply allocate your budget on tires and drive train parts vs batteries and motors.
2.The track is unlike anything we drive on EVER. We simply don't race outdoors on 200ft tracks. We simply have so much catching up to do and learning on tracks the size of the WC track. People in other countries race outdoors on large tracks All the time.
3.The tires chosen sucked. Yeah, it's the same for everyone (but it's not). The europeans especially run on large, unprepped surfaces all the time. They have experience making crappy tires and/or bad surfaces work. We race on high bite carpet for the most part.
4. Asphalt is simply not as popular here. We have 1 big race per year on asphalt (Reedy Race) and then the ROAR nats.
Not making excuses for us, but given the conditions above , how can we have an expectation of performance when we simply are not prepared for it.
The only statement made previously that I disagree with would be tires/drivetrain parts used in mod being no more expensive than motors/batteries/ESCs in spec racing. I spent a lot more on drivetrain parts and tires attempting to run mod than I ever did buying electronics for spec classes, blinky or boosted. Mod powertrains are FAR harder on batteries as well. Not to mention the "learning curve" for aspiring mod drivers could involve a few replacement kits that are wrecked beyond repair, while some drivers are comfortable with that risk, there are many more that aren't.
Last edited by oeoeo327; 10-14-2014 at 05:11 AM.
10-13-2014, 01:22 PM
#66
Start with something mild, play with the boost to get the speeds up, then strap in the 4.5 when your ready.
10-13-2014, 02:53 PM
#68
10-13-2014, 03:01 PM
#70
AMERICAN RACERS SHOULD DO LIKE BERT AND USE 2.5T MOTORS !!!
10-13-2014, 03:12 PM
#71
I wandered the pits a couple of days and there was I noted one thing no one has mentioned. All of the guys that were the age of our typical club members were either running in the early mains or were working as mechanics. Most of the fast guys were in their twenties or early thirties. Athleticism and reflexes seemed to have something to do with this. To get good enough to compete at the World level, I would think that you would want 5 to 7 years of experience. Just how many 15 year olds run in your TC club?
10-13-2014, 03:21 PM
#72
Maybe all the RC racers would benefit from going to the gym more often... America certainly does not have the fittest group of racers....lol..... Boxing training has made me faster on the track.....
I wandered the pits a couple of days and there was I noted one thing no one has mentioned. All of the guys that were the age of our typical club members were either running in the early mains or were working as mechanics. Most of the fast guys were in their twenties or early thirties. Athleticism and reflexes seemed to have something to do with this. To get good enough to compete at the World level, I would think that you would want 5 to 7 years of experience. Just how many 15 year olds run in your TC club?
10-13-2014, 03:35 PM
#74
Mechanics... when did this turn into 1:1 racing. These are (very complex and exspensive) toy cars. But they are small and not nesrly as complex to work on as a real car. Why do you need a mechanic. If you cant (or wont) work on your own car, then your just playing gran tourismo 3d. Exceptions made for the very young/old/disabled. Maybe thats why all the young kids are doing better. More stick time in front of the boob tube.
10-13-2014, 03:48 PM
#75
More pics coming.... http://gilbertsantos.smugmug.com/201...-WORLDS-MAINS/
http://gilbertsantos.smugmug.com/org...R-ONROAD-WORLD
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http://gilbertsantos.smugmug.com/org...R-ONROAD-WORLD
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