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Old 10-11-2014, 02:16 AM   #271
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Now first pics from Jilles new 419

http://kentech.blogs.se/
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Old 10-11-2014, 02:17 AM   #272
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Or here: http://events.redrc.net/2014/10/new-...tamiya-trf419/
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Old 10-11-2014, 02:27 AM   #273
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Correct me if I'm wrong, the pulley tooth count is the same as the 418 but the tooth counts of the inner diff gears has changed?

I have already bought a panaracer 90t 64p spur and a kawada 51t pinion for the car already (running 21.5t), I'm hoping I can at least use the spur gear
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Old 10-11-2014, 02:43 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by TB03Racer09 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, the pulley tooth count is the same as the 418 but the tooth counts of the inner diff gears has changed?
according to the article linked above the pulley is larger *and* the internals have changed ratio.

to make the diff hold more oil it would have been hard to do so without making the overall diameter larger - so this is what I am confident they have done, upped the 37t pulleys to 39 or 40.

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Originally Posted by TB03Racer09 View Post
I have already bought a panaracer 90t 64p spur and a kawada 51t pinion for the car already (running 21.5t), I'm hoping I can at least use the spur gear
a 90/51 combo will give 3.26 FDR with a 418

as my previous post, if the internal ratio does go from 1.85 (418) to 1.95, 90/51 will be 3.44 FDR

but who knows, the might have changed out the 20t centre pulleys for 21t and the internal will be pretty much as it is now (1.857)

I could be wrong on 39t too. might even end up 40 like the rest of the competition! which will stuff up all the stock guys even more

regardless, your spur isn't wasted and it's a $5 consumable anyway. but as a tip, for dusty dirty Aussie tracks - and running 21.5, you are probably better off going to 48p, you will get your ratios easier and not smash gears as often.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:26 AM   #275
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Quote:
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according to the article linked above the pulley is larger *and* the internals have changed ratio...
Here's the article I believe you are referring to.
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Old 10-11-2014, 03:43 AM   #276
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^yep. Same one on Kentech's blog.
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:17 AM   #277
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Quote:
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I'm referring to the 39t spool pulley that is available for the TA06. The diff is all new for sure. The 503/06 one takes the same gears as the previous diff and has the same oil volume.



This new diff is different internal ratio (inside the diff) but this won't effect the FDR - the larger pulley on the diff/spool will though. It's just the relative size of the small/large bevel gears inside. This will effect the diff action, not the drive. They might just be the gears from the Evo6? The old diff is 20:12 the Evo6 is 18:10.

If the diff/spool pulleys are 39t and they keep the 20t centres, it will be 1.95 - pretty much back to what the 417 was with 37:19 (1.947)
I doubt the diff action is affected in any measurable way by the ratio of the spider to satellite gears.

The EVO6 gears small and crappy,I don't know why anyone would want them if they had a choice.

Yep, that's what I said, the internal ratio will change but not in the right direction (for stock classes - which I understand means a fair chunk of the US market).
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:45 AM   #278
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I doubt the diff action is affected in any measurable way by the ratio of the spider to satellite gears.

The EVO6 gears small and crappy,I don't know why anyone would want them if they had a choice.

Yep, that's what I said, the internal ratio will change but not in the right direction (for stock classes - which I understand means a fair chunk of the US market).
The key is to make the diff action as smooth as possible. The smoother the diff action is, the easier it is to drive. The relative lack of smoothness of the gear diff action is the reason why some still run a ball diff in 2wd buggies.
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Old 10-11-2014, 05:10 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cplus View Post
according to the article linked above the pulley is larger *and* the internals have changed ratio.

to make the diff hold more oil it would have been hard to do so without making the overall diameter larger - so this is what I am confident they have done, upped the 37t pulleys to 39 or 40.



a 90/51 combo will give 3.26 FDR with a 418

as my previous post, if the internal ratio does go from 1.85 (418) to 1.95, 90/51 will be 3.44 FDR

but who knows, the might have changed out the 20t centre pulleys for 21t and the internal will be pretty much as it is now (1.857)

I could be wrong on 39t too. might even end up 40 like the rest of the competition! which will stuff up all the stock guys even more

regardless, your spur isn't wasted and it's a $5 consumable anyway. but as a tip, for dusty dirty Aussie tracks - and running 21.5, you are probably better off going to 48p, you will get your ratios easier and not smash gears as often.
Thanks for your swift and informative answers. I guess we won't know until the car is released. I have been running 64p in my Tamiya TB04 with great succes, although the gears are 80% sealed off from dirt and rocks. I will run the 64p gears first since I bought them and if they don't last as long as I hoped, I already have a bunch of 48p spurs ready for action.
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Old 10-11-2014, 05:40 AM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niznai View Post
I doubt the diff action is affected in any measurable way by the ratio of the spider to satellite gears.

The EVO6 gears small and crappy,I don't know why anyone would want them if they had a choice.
I've never seen the evo6 gears up close. The articles all say the new diff uses a more coarse pitch. if the evo6 (metal or plastic) gears are crappy, it would be a shame, but tamiya do like to use their parts across as many platforms as possible. This is the only reason I've suggested it. It doesn't make immediate sense to me to use smaller gears when trying to achieve higher volume, wait and see I guess.

In terms of changing the "action" smoothness, consistency, transition, wear - if any of them get better, it's a positive. Changing the ratio/weight/size/pitch can all have an effect - even if only slight. We are talking about a sport that is measured in 1/1000's remember.

Last edited by cplus; 10-11-2014 at 05:52 AM.
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:42 AM   #281
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Can any of you tell me when the release date for the TRF 419 is?

Especially now after the World Cup, it should go quickly.
In Europe would be interesting
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Old 10-13-2014, 10:59 AM   #282
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I don't think the gear ratio of the diff bevel gears has any impact on how smooth the diff action is apart from a general comment that tooth profile is the main determinant. Coarser gears of course will be more detrimental for our small cars, but if the right tooth profile is used (and a good cast) this should be overcome. A classic example is the difference in mesh between the Yokomo SD cars and the Tamiya TB cars (I am talking here about the crown/pinion, not diff internal gears) but the same applies.

The ratio itself doesn't factor anywhere, though I imagine a finer tooth profile might be beneficial. Going too fine however poses its own problems and I don't think our car manufacturers are that devoted to their craft.

I have tried both plastic and steel diff internals in the EVO6 diffs and they are equally crappy with the plastic ones being lighter. Both feel crunchy like a sandy sandwich when new. The problem I found was that there is no steel shim at the back of the spider gears, hence they rub against the case and do not ride where they should on the planetary gears (mesh doesn't fully engage the full width of the teeth). I actually just finished shimming a new diff (with hand made shims, because Tamiya doesn't oblige and the weird diameters needed are not readily available) and I have now the diff as smooth as it can be. A spot of running in and I think the diff action is going to be on par with a balldiff minus the need for maintenance. Which basically is going to bring it into line with the Xray and Schumacher (belt designated) diffs which I think are the best (whatever that means).

Like I said before, I think the material itself is part of the problem. The plastic used by both Xray and Schumacher (and Yokomo too) seems more slippery and soft, the Tamiya plastic seems like recycled plastic, kinda grainy and hard.
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Last edited by niznai; 10-15-2014 at 02:26 AM.
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Old 10-13-2014, 11:08 AM   #283
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Or the moldings are not as good as they can be.

My 418 diff is still not as smooth as my X-ray diff. Heck, even my Spec-R diff from my VM2 was smoother than my 418 diff.
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:01 AM   #284
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What I took from that article was the internal ratio of the DIFFERENTIAL is different. Not the entire drive line. Meaning most likely that they increased the tooth count of the small spyder gears, and/or decreased the size of the outdrive gears. This would most definitely produce a smoother feeling, as the small spyder gears of the VII diff look be be bordering on too small to be efficient given their pitch. Imagine a 4 tooth pinion gear...regardless of pitch, as you reduce tooth count, eventually you will reach a point of inefficiency.
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:18 PM   #285
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If the quotes are accurate in the liverc article, it is both.

In the first "notes" paragraph....

"The rear gear differential is larger to hold more oil, and has a new internal ratio"

And later,

"Jilles mentioned that the pulleys are larger than those on the 418, which makes the car accelerate more smoothly and feels like it has more traction, and both will be black as the plastic doesn’t show dirt as much as the white plastic on the prototype pulley seen here."
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