R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-09-2014, 05:56 AM   #256
Tech Fanatic
 
d16dcoe45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Armonk, NY
Posts: 932
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
What you are talking about is making sedan even more like 1/8 on road which of course is the path to popularity.

Btw the reason you dont see sedans designed around short packs or any mod cars with short packs is that they dont provide the power(not referring to capacity) that bigger packs do. In offroad the load is not the same. To prove my point, dirt oval racers (on high bite tracks with foam tires) who tried the short packs in *17.5* went back to full sized packs.

As far as a center diff, i'm not sure if its legal. Slipper clutches were outlawed early on for sure, and I'm not sure if a 3rd diff is allowed.
I 'd love on road to be more popular but that wasn't the reason for my suggestions--just a better car.

17.5 on road is a different animal and the only way to achieve parity (with the smaller packs) would be ONLY shortys or don't even bother. But in Mod? Couldn't you just run a hotter wind/more boost or is it not that simple?

Why aren't slippers or 3 diffs allowed in a TC? Any actual sound reasoning or some old weirdo rule? Not that I see the point of a slipper in a TC just the idea that it is "illegal" for whatever reason.
__________________
Jay Lestingi


Tamiya/Team Associated/Orca
d16dcoe45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 06:44 AM   #257
Tech Elite
 
sosidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3,811
Default

You're fighting the wrong battle.

The rules for the class have developed over time and have derived from a number of influences. Most of which are in the interests of keeping the class healthy, competitive and cost effective.

They are not in place to restrict development - instead they define what the class is.

If you start changing the dimensions, the drivetrain and the bodyshells - you aren't running a touring car any more. There is ample scope for innovation in a touring car - the Awesomatix is more or less the complete opposite of a conventional belt-drive touring car and it is completely legal.

It is just that the market is very mature now and most of the manufacturers are very conservative. I started touring car racing in 2001 and every new release was packed full of new ideas. Sadly that is not the case any more.
sosidge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 07:54 AM   #258
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,167
Trader Rating: 77 (100%+)
Default

So let's get her back on track.

Does anyone have a release date yet?
__________________
TRF 418 - Team Powers 17.5, HobbyWing Stock Spec, Xpert servo
Xray T4 2016 - Trinity D4, HobbyWing Stock Spec, Ko Propo servo and radio
KustomRCGraphics.com (Best looking novice on the track)
goin2drt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 09:56 AM   #259
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: santa monica / manchester
Posts: 1,187
Default

Sorta TRF419 related,

I managed to catch up with Jilles Groskamp just before he set off to race in this years worlds, here is a link to the interview

http://www.thercracer.com/2014/10/ra...-groskamp.html

as to the release date, I was told late November.
__________________
http://www.theRcRacer.com/

TRF419, TBEvo6, TT02, VDF, TRF501x, TRF201, TRF101, Mi5, X-Ray T4-13, BD7 2014, A700 Evo, WR-02G
Qatmix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 11:39 AM   #260
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Philippines
Posts: 571
Trader Rating: 5 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d16dcoe45 View Post
The innovation is the fact of the recent use of machined alloy chassis, very aggressive cab forward bodies, mid motor & even center motor 2wd buggies--3 diffs for 4wd off road & designing cars AROUND current lipo technology--not designing cars around old style brick packs.

Why no center diff for 1/10 electric TC? It can give the corner speed advantage of a one-way without the negative effects (ie loss of front brakes) of a one way.

The aluminum chassis only came to on road (talking about electric) after it was tried and worked quite well in off road.



Those are not new to on-road (center 1-ways and mid-motor config, for example), but they eventually died out of use for a reason. All these companies spend a lot on research and dev't, with proper racers and engineers to come up with solutions, and you'd think they're not even trying?

On-road and Off-road have differing sets of requirements, so saying "this-and-that is absent in on-road, while it is there in off-road, therefore on-road is on a stand still in development" is a bit misconstrued or lacking in development.

Anyway, all of these (on and off road) are built with function first in mind. If something is needed to be fast, it will be there. If not, it will be changed and/or improved.
__________________
Tamiya - Awesomatix - Orca - Orion - LRP - Protoform - Sanwa - Futaba - NASA - Ride
Minami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 11:58 AM   #261
Tech Elite
 
Raman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 2,908
Trader Rating: 46 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minami View Post



Those are not new to on-road (center 1-ways and mid-motor config, for example), but they eventually died out of use for a reason. All these companies spend a lot on research and dev't, with proper racers and engineers to come up with solutions, and you'd think they're not even trying?

On-road and Off-road have differing sets of requirements, so saying "this-and-that is absent in on-road, while it is there in off-road, therefore on-road is on a stand still in development" is a bit misconstrued or lacking in development.

Anyway, all of these (on and off road) are built with function first in mind. If something is needed to be fast, it will be there. If not, it will be changed and/or improved.
+1 take a look at the GT8 class where they convert Buggys to onroad. The brushless versions end up removing the centre diff and replacing it with a spool, or locking the centre diff. You don't need a centre diff on asphalt.

As for Aluminium chassis. All end users are looking for the next new advance and companies are looking to make some new $. Unfortunately, not all new ideas are better. While In the off-road world an aluminium is a better choice than carbon.. It's more durable and won't be compromised by nicks. However in the onroad world, it's just another gimmick to make new sales or sell an additional hop up chassis. With carbon you can weave flex into different parts of the chassis. You can try that with aluminium, I suppose by thinning / milling out the section, but it won't be as fluid as carbon because your removing material to achieve this, whereas with carbon your building the weave into the chassis.
Raman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 12:29 PM   #262
Tech Elite
 
niznai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: All over the place
Posts: 2,746
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raman View Post

[...]

As for Aluminium chassis.

[...]
Ha. You said "Aluminium".
__________________
Team Greasy Weasel

The best upgrade to any car is some driver skill.
niznai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 12:56 PM   #263
Tech Master
 
Matthew_Armeni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,298
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
As far as a center diff, i'm not sure if its legal. Slipper clutches were outlawed early on for sure, and I'm not sure if a 3rd diff is allowed.
I can't find any IFMAR or ROAR rule outlawing slippers or center diffs. The only drivetrain things I found were that ROAR requires 4WD, IFMAR say 4WD or 2WD (front or rear, both are ok), and IFMAR says you cannot run a one-way bearing in the rear for front wheel braking only, the rear must be able to have braking effect from the ESC it says. That last one is interesting, I guess a FWD car is an exception for that, unless you were to run a one-way in the rear but installed it backwards.
__________________
Tekno RC
Matthew_Armeni is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 12:57 PM   #264
Tech Elite
 
Raman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 2,908
Trader Rating: 46 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niznai View Post
Ha. You said "Aluminium".
Well I did learn English in good ole United Kingdom
Raman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 08:08 PM   #265
Tech Elite
 
niznai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: All over the place
Posts: 2,746
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raman View Post
Well I did learn English in good ole United Kingdom
Dang imperialists.
__________________
Team Greasy Weasel

The best upgrade to any car is some driver skill.
niznai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 12:13 AM   #266
Tech Regular
 
TB03Racer09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 408
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Looks like its between Tamiya and Yokomo for the worlds, the Yokomo being slightly ahead. The Tamiya drivers seem happy with the TRF419 in open practice.

Just wondering, when does Tamiya release a worlds edition kit after winning the worlds? Do they release both the standard 419 and the worlds or just one or the other?
TB03Racer09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 02:05 AM   #267
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,030
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TB03Racer09 View Post
Looks like its between Tamiya and Yokomo for the worlds, the Yokomo being slightly ahead. The Tamiya drivers seem happy with the TRF419 in open practice.
today we will know more. the rankings are all on three lap pace and not many were doing full 5 min runs. most guys were mixing up their chassis to see which one they prefered - some even mixed during the heats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TB03Racer09 View Post
Just wondering, when does Tamiya release a worlds edition kit after winning the worlds? Do they release both the standard 419 and the worlds or just one or the other?
Bit hard to say what they will do.

in recent times they have released the "new" car in a non worlds year (as was the 418) and then the update iteration afterwards.

I think if they win, we will see the "standard" 419 plus a limited worlds edition that includes some bonus parts or similar.
cplus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2014, 04:20 PM   #268
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,030
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

So looks like I was right on the pulleys

More teeth, bigger housing, more oil, tougher gears. Nice. Oh, and black too - which is actually a negative I think, I like being able to see when there is crud in my pulley so I can clean it out!!

"Jilles mentioned that the pulleys are larger than those on the 418, which makes the car accelerate more smoothly and feels like it has more traction, and both will be black as the plastic doesn’t show dirt as much as the white plastic on the prototype pulley seen here."

High chance 39t too. No need for a new injection moulding die that way as they can just take the front from the TA06. Save a bit of coin, why not!
cplus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2014, 12:40 AM   #269
Tech Elite
 
niznai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: All over the place
Posts: 2,746
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cplus View Post
So looks like I was right on the pulleys

More teeth, bigger housing, more oil, tougher gears. Nice. Oh, and black too - which is actually a negative I think, I like being able to see when there is crud in my pulley so I can clean it out!!

"Jilles mentioned that the pulleys are larger than those on the 418, which makes the car accelerate more smoothly and feels like it has more traction, and both will be black as the plastic doesn’t show dirt as much as the white plastic on the prototype pulley seen here."

High chance 39t too. No need for a new injection moulding die that way as they can just take the front from the TA06. Save a bit of coin, why not!
I am not sure about that. The gear housing half looks different on the outside.

And it's not going to make life easy for stock classes, with the new internal ratio. Hopefully will move to a higher tooth count for the center pulleys (don't hold your breath).
__________________
Team Greasy Weasel

The best upgrade to any car is some driver skill.
niznai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2014, 01:57 AM   #270
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,030
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niznai View Post
I am not sure about that. The gear housing half looks different on the outside.
I'm referring to the 39t spool pulley that is available for the TA06. The diff is all new for sure. The 503/06 one takes the same gears as the previous diff and has the same oil volume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niznai View Post
And it's not going to make life easy for stock classes, with the new internal ratio. Hopefully will move to a higher tooth count for the center pulleys (don't hold your breath).
This new diff is different internal ratio (inside the diff) but this won't effect the FDR - the larger pulley on the diff/spool will though. It's just the relative size of the small/large bevel gears inside. This will effect the diff action, not the drive. They might just be the gears from the Evo6? The old diff is 20:12 the Evo6 is 18:10.

If the diff/spool pulleys are 39t and they keep the 20t centres, it will be 1.95 - pretty much back to what the 417 was with 37:19 (1.947)
cplus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:17 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net

SEO by vBSEO 3.5.0