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Old 07-10-2014, 08:33 AM   #46
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I still say that if Xray thought is was worth their time, they would be putting out a current "R" kit. A lot has changed in a few years. They can't sell a C/F kit with djc's, ect. for $300 and make money. At this point there is plenty of competition, and asking someone to choose between a top-tier (spec sheet-wise) kit and and an R version is not going to get the immediate response of " still gotta' have an Xray". Heck, even the super-budget version of some of these asian produced kits are pretty damn good now for what you pay. At the ROAR regionals that recently took place one, of the guys finishing top-3 in VTA ran a Sakura XI sport, It's a sub-$120 car!

As for providing a cheaper car to build a bigger Xray fan-base, well I sort of think that happens by the very nature of the fact that they put out new cars so often. As soon as the new kit comes out everyone dumps their old cars. I run VTA and I've had a number of nice used Xrays come my way. Right now I have a T3 2012 with ecs's and the Exotek chassis, only paid
$200 for it. I can go on Ebay and find 2010-2012 cars in good shape for 150-200 all day. So why would I buy an "R" version kit when I can have a top-spec Xray that at the most needs a few new bearings?
Agreed. if XRay cannot produce a car to compete directly with the $120 specials coming from SpecR and 3Racing they essentially create another price bracket that may still be too high for the guys on a budget and on the other side cannabilize sales of the standard car but at a lower margin, assuming they use a lot of the same parts in suspension and drive line. Given where they have positioned themselves currently I don't see where it benefits them to 1. Sell a car of Xray quality at low margins or 2. sub out a car of questionable quality so they have something to sell in the $100 price range.
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:38 AM   #47
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I believe VBC attemped this with the Ghost. I have one, and its a great kit, shares tons of parts with the other cars in the VBC line. But I am not sure of sales, I think they did ok, and it can be ugraded to a full carbon fiber racer if I wanted to. Xray has much better name recognition, marketing and distrobution than VBC. I dont think it would hurt branding if they stayed in the $250 range and it came with all the alum bits, but no carbon fiber and maybe some other small differences. But all that could be upgraded.

It might be enough to pull some of those with basic entry level or used kits over to a new XRAY vs buying another used kit.
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:49 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by nf_ekt View Post
I still say that if Xray thought is was worth their time, they would be putting out a current "R" kit. A lot has changed in a few years. They can't sell a C/F kit with djc's, ect. for $300 and make money. At this point there is plenty of competition, and asking someone to choose between a top-tier (spec sheet-wise) kit and and an R version is not going to get the immediate response of " still gotta' have an Xray". Heck, even the super-budget version of some of these asian produced kits are pretty damn good now for what you pay. At the ROAR regionals that recently took place one, of the guys finishing top-3 in VTA ran a Sakura XI sport, It's a sub-$120 car!

As for providing a cheaper car to build a bigger Xray fan-base, well I sort of think that happens by the very nature of the fact that they put out new cars so often. As soon as the new kit comes out everyone dumps their old cars. I run VTA and I've had a number of nice used Xrays come my way. Right now I have a T3 2012 with ecs's and the Exotek chassis, only paid
$200 for it. I can go on Ebay and find 2010-2012 cars in good shape for 150-200 all day. So why would I buy an "R" version kit when I can have a top-spec Xray that at the most needs a few new bearings?
Pretty spot on. May need a little more than just a bearing kit. You can buy a car from the fastest guy at the track, but you'll still find something wrong with it.
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:52 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
I believe VBC attemped this with the Ghost. I have one, and its a great kit, shares tons of parts with the other cars in the VBC line. But I am not sure of sales, I think they did ok, and it can be ugraded to a full carbon fiber racer if I wanted to. Xray has much better name recognition, marketing and distrobution than VBC. I dont think it would hurt branding if they stayed in the $250 range and it came with all the alum bits, but no carbon fiber and maybe some other small differences. But all that could be upgraded.

It might be enough to pull some of those with basic entry level or used kits over to a new XRAY vs buying another used kit.
Maybe if Xray tried what VBC did with their ghost (aka the "vta-specific" chassis), it might make sense. VTA has been on the rise and we all know how difficult it can be to make certain modern chassis' work.... where to put the extra weight, how to stuff the proper 25.5 gearing into it, spacing so there is no contact with the wheels and lower shock mounts, ect. I wouldn't be surprised if they sold a bunch of kits that address this specifically. VtA guys don't need ultra high-spec cars. Don't need CF or light weight hardware....especially with usvta rules we are always trying to make the weight minimum. Xray could get creative with having spots on the chassis to put weights. Add flex or geometry, ect that works best with vta tires. But that's just me thinking out loud. As a company they know what works and at the moment focusing on the premium market is what works best for them.
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:57 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
I believe VBC attemped this with the Ghost. I have one, and its a great kit, shares tons of parts with the other cars in the VBC line. But I am not sure of sales, I think they did ok, and it can be ugraded to a full carbon fiber racer if I wanted to. Xray has much better name recognition, marketing and distrobution than VBC. I dont think it would hurt branding if they stayed in the $250 range and it came with all the alum bits, but no carbon fiber and maybe some other small differences. But all that could be upgraded.

It might be enough to pull some of those with basic entry level or used kits over to a new XRAY vs buying another used kit.
VBC seems to be doing a good job. For XRay is there enough margin in the shared parts to absorb the $250-$300 price decrease? Does the switch from carbon parts to fiberglass creates enough of a savings in to offset the 50% price decrease. I'm not sure how much of an Xray tourer is made in-house vs subbed out or what the manufacturing costs are in Slovakia vs. China. Interesting question.
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:59 AM   #51
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They do everything in house. The manufacturing cost in Slovakia is much higher than in china. But the quality is way better.
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:14 AM   #52
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They do everything in house. The manufacturing cost in Slovakia is much higher than in china. But the quality is way better.
Certainly is, even if the Asian brands have closed the gap. I don't think xray would do themselves any favors by trying to compete for the "in between" market anymore, at this point. The name is established and premium is what they do best.
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:28 AM   #53
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The Xray factory is entirely self sufficient and was built with European Union funds (grant). Everything is made in house, except perhaps the screws.
Production costs are not that much higher (everything is fully automated), but the research and design might add a fair chunk of dough to it. Which is why the cars are better.

But they're no premium.

Premium is when you have all the options in the box, that's premium, and as far as I know Xray still doesn't come with DCJ in the box. Tamiya does, and the quality is on par with Xray. The only difference between the two is that attention is distributed differently among details. Tamiya is not a leader in design, true, but their cars are more and more refined (just like Xray's). And both tend to converge in design if we disregard Tamiya's forays of late into transverse motor/shaft drive which seem to be getting better. Perhaps a similar Xray is not far off.
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Old 07-10-2014, 12:02 PM   #54
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The Xray factory is entirely self sufficient and was built with European Union funds (grant). Everything is made in house, except perhaps the screws.
Production costs are not that much higher (everything is fully automated), but the research and design might add a fair chunk of dough to it. Which is why the cars are better.

But they're no premium.

Premium is when you have all the options in the box, that's premium, and as far as I know Xray still doesn't come with DCJ in the box. Tamiya does, and the quality is on par with Xray. The only difference between the two is that attention is distributed differently among details. Tamiya is not a leader in design, true, but their cars are more and more refined (just like Xray's). And both tend to converge in design if we disregard Tamiya's forays of late into transverse motor/shaft drive which seem to be getting better. Perhaps a similar Xray is not far off.
I would say Xray is never really leading edge design, but it takes a lot of other concepts and makes a very complete car, not necessarily the fastest car but one of the easiest cars to actually consistently drive fast. (which is more important for most of us who go club racing).

As to the new car, I imagine it will be mainly around the motor mount that things will be different by having a floating shaft etc.

And yes, double cardan's should really be in the kit.
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Old 07-10-2014, 12:08 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by niznai View Post
The Xray factory is entirely self sufficient and was built with European Union funds (grant). Everything is made in house, except perhaps the screws.
Production costs are not that much higher (everything is fully automated), but the research and design might add a fair chunk of dough to it. Which is why the cars are better.

But they're no premium.

Premium is when you have all the options in the box, that's premium, and as far as I know Xray still doesn't come with DCJ in the box. Tamiya does, and the quality is on par with Xray. The only difference between the two is that attention is distributed differently among details. Tamiya is not a leader in design, true, but their cars are more and more refined (just like Xray's). And both tend to converge in design if we disregard Tamiya's forays of late into transverse motor/shaft drive which seem to be getting better. Perhaps a similar Xray is not far off.
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Old 07-10-2014, 01:09 PM   #56
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There is always somebody doing things less good and trying to sell cheap.

As a customer you should ask yourself if you want to pay twice, either for hup ups, or even more expesive for a complete replacement.
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Old 07-11-2014, 03:52 AM   #57
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There have been rumors at the last ETS race (Hudy Arena) about the T4 going back to bigger/longer shocks. Has maybe something to do with Yokomo and Tamiya still using ‘’standard’’ length shocks very successfully in mod class.
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:44 AM   #58
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Been at the hudy arena myself AND didnt see any long shocks
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Old 07-11-2014, 05:47 AM   #59
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Been at the hudy arena myself AND didnt see any long shocks
Would be surprised if you actually would or maybe you are from Team Xray and trying to distract us!?
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Old 07-11-2014, 07:32 AM   #60
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I do not think there will be another R version by Xray.

IIRC, I think the last one cost them dearly - as everyone purchased the T3R kit to use as spares for the full blown T3.

For a track with wooden track boards, you cannot beat the durability of an XRay, period.

I enjoyed my Tamiya days but I think the TRF is weaker than the Xray.

It's the only negative I would give Tamiya - and its UK parts backup.
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