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Old 10-20-2014, 05:22 PM   #241
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I used a front spool for the entire race. I avoided traction rolling by doping only 1/2 of my front tires. I was cleaning the front tires with motor spray after each run. Then 5 mins before my next run I would go to the Tire Doping Impound table and fully dope the rear tires and only dope the inside half of the front tires. I left the tires wet until 10 secs before my run, then I would wipe them with a rag and set the car on the track.
Cool. There's been times for me on really high bite where just doping for 1 or 2 minutes before a race is enough.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:37 PM   #242
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Cool. There's been times for me on really high bite where just doping for 1 or 2 minutes before a race is enough.
Cody, have you tried the RRS on your car?
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:04 PM   #243
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Here's a pic of my Serpent Eryx 3.0 going through the switchback right in front of the race director's booth at IIC in Las Vegas.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:18 AM   #244
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Best to check, but I think if you run the link attachment to the bottom of the top deck you will get toe out on suspension compression, which isn't really what your looking for (or maybe you are).
Mike used spacers to make sure the links were horizontal at ride height. His preference to attach there was a wish to not change the flex characteristics of the chassis with the RRS block.

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I also think that with the exception of the wheelbase changing slightly between the available C-hubs in the back, it shouldn't make much of a difference as your only talking about around 2* of toe, which really isn't getting into the sweep part of the steering that would be effected by the castor of the c-hub.
I asked as I built mine the other way, with the hubs angled back. Mike was forward at 4*, and Hagberg had success with his car running angled forward at 6* but I have not heard anything specific about testing it one way and then the other. I also put shims under the rear block so the upward movement of the hub was vertical, but as I was messing with the Gravity tires at the time, I cannot say really how it worked.

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Considering how Mike mounted the links to the underside of the top deck, there is no doubt that he would not see much difference. His RRS setup would be similar to mounting links on the inner hole of the RRS bracket and using 3mm shims on the pivotball height. This would yield a total difference of only 0.18 rear toe (see blue line in top chart of pic below). I chose to use the outer hole on the RRS bracket and a 1mm shim on the pivotball height which would yield a difference of nearly 1.0 rear toe when the car is in full tilt (see green line in bottom chart of pic below).
Agreed, just know there were a lot of spacers involved. He actually drilled holes in the chassis to be able to get a wrench in to get the ball studs in from the bottom.

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I thimk I have a spool indicated on the setup sheet. A front gear diff would've helped with the onthrottle/high speed traction roll issues. Also, how were you cleaning and doping the tires?
+LOTS, that was the magic fix I got from Cody at the Southern Nats.
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Old 10-21-2014, 05:21 AM   #245
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I wanna post a picture too!
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Old 10-21-2014, 10:13 AM   #246
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Mike used spacers to make sure the links were horizontal at ride height. His preference to attach there was a wish to not change the flex characteristics of the chassis with the RRS block.

I asked as I built mine the other way, with the hubs angled back. Mike was forward at 4*, and Hagberg had success with his car running angled forward at 6* but I have not heard anything specific about testing it one way and then the other. I also put shims under the rear block so the upward movement of the hub was vertical, but as I was messing with the Gravity tires at the time, I cannot say really how it worked.
That makes sense, he must of had a lot of spacers. With my cobbled version I retained 2 pce arm blocks but just used a really long screw and a spacer on top of the block. From what I've seen with the RRS block it not only will effect the flex but unlike what they say, I don't think it would bolt into the older cars, unless you do some modifying. The older motor mounts get in the way of the attachment points.

I also ran mine angled forward but left the arms flat. I think the problem is (not really a problem) that there are so many variables involved with that whole setup that its kind of hard to determine what is really the single item that is making the performance gain, other than when you hit the setup, it seems to work.
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Old 10-21-2014, 10:36 AM   #247
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These 3 charts included in the Serpent RRS instruction manual is what helped me determine which setting to use. I was looking for the widest change in rear toe with slightest change in ride height, so the green line on the 3rd chart, 'OUTSIDE HOLE', is what I used for my car at the IIC.
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Old 10-21-2014, 10:51 AM   #248
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That makes sense, he must of had a lot of spacers. With my cobbled version I retained 2 pce arm blocks but just used a really long screw and a spacer on top of the block. From what I've seen with the RRS block it not only will effect the flex but unlike what they say, I don't think it would bolt into the older cars, unless you do some modifying. The older motor mounts get in the way of the attachment points.

I also ran mine angled forward but left the arms flat. I think the problem is (not really a problem) that there are so many variables involved with that whole setup that its kind of hard to determine what is really the single item that is making the performance gain, other than when you hit the setup, it seems to work.
So it will only bolt onto cars with the V4 motor mount. That motor mount works with all the chassis options though.

I agree, and without some dedicated testing, it will be hard to know. Without any onroad tracks in the state anymore, it is tough for me to do much other then just get my car working for each away race.
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:25 PM   #249
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I agree, and without some dedicated testing, it will be hard to know. Without any onroad tracks in the state anymore, it is tough for me to do much other then just get my car working for each away race.
What happened to HotshotRc Raceway? Did they close down?
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:35 PM   #250
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What happened to HotshotRc Raceway? Did they close down?
They replaced the carpet offroad with dirt offroad which destroyed the carpet and led to them bulldozing it and making the whole thing dirt offroad. A few of us are hanging on and head up to Nashville, Bush River, One Lug (before it shut down) and a very limited few go to Sugar Bowl to run some outdoor mod TC. It was all the practice we had for Worlds.

There is a new place, DC Hobbies that opened up on the other end of town, asphalt outdoor track but no timing, no power, no pit area and fairly small. Has potential, but the onroad crowd was pretty badly beat down as the whole Hot Shots thing happened and a lot of guys got out of RC completely.

We have I think 4 of us heading up to Thunder this weekend to race. Going to work on my TC (probably will put the RRS back on as we are done with the Gravity tires) and taking the FF out for some USGT fun. Retired my mod 12th scale chassis after Minnreg and moving everything over to my LT, and will probably build a new stock 12th when the new chassis comes out. Lot of stuff to be doing on cars I can't race local hehe.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:54 PM   #251
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So it will only bolt onto cars with the V4 motor mount. That motor mount works with all the chassis options though.

I agree, and without some dedicated testing, it will be hard to know. Without any onroad tracks in the state anymore, it is tough for me to do much other then just get my car working for each away race.
Yes, to expand on that even more, we have to consider everything thats changing when going to the rear steer system. The car gets wider, the roll center changes, the wheelbase changes, rear axle height changes, and then there is the actual toe thats changing. It makes one think that it should really be redesigned to eliminate some of variances.
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Old 10-22-2014, 01:40 AM   #252
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These 3 charts included in the Serpent RRS instruction manual is what helped me determine which setting to use. I was looking for the widest change in rear toe with slightest change in ride height, so the green line on the 3rd chart, 'OUTSIDE HOLE', is what I used for my car at the IIC.
What width are you getting in the rear with 0.5-3-5 blocks? Are you using 5 mm shims in front of rear arm as indicated in the setup sheet?
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Old 10-24-2014, 11:52 AM   #253
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What width are you getting in the rear with 0.5-3-5 blocks? Are you using 5 mm shims in front of rear arm as indicated in the setup sheet?
Hi Holmenkollen, yes I am using 5 mm shims if front of the rear arm just like the setup sheet. I measured the rear width (from right-rear tire to left-rear tire) and it is 193 mm at the widest (rear edge of tires) and 189 mm at the narrowest (front edge of tires).
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:04 AM   #254
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Went to Thunder RC in Nashville yesterday to play toy cars. Took the 411FF to test out in USGT and reworked some of the 17.5 TC to test. I put the RRS back on (.5/3.5 blocks, c-hubs forward) and put the short shocks back on. Still running the front gear diff at 1mil and white Serpent springs. Other then an arm issue, the car felt really good. Had to back the dual rate way off, but going to old Jacos (purchased used 3 years ago), took a half second off my best lap time from the Southern Nats. Back end rotated a tad more then I like but still felt easy to drive. I was set at just over 2* toe in on the back at ride height, outside hole 1mm washer. Came to just over 3* on the gauges at full compression. Unfortunately due to working on the FF, did not get more then the 2 runs, but was very happy with how it felt. Traction is high bite carpet, pretty flowing layout (old IIC layout). I did have the center chassis stiffener in, both top deck stiffener pieces, and the LE/TE standard top deck.

FF was actually pretty good as well, though need thicker front diff oil (500k and maybe up to a mil). Drives totally different then a standard TC, but not at all what I would expect a FWD to drive like. I was just over the minimum weight at 1216g, running a 3500mah shorty all the way back. Weight balance was 67 front, 33 rear and back end felt planted. Fun change of pace though.
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Old 11-03-2014, 02:04 PM   #255
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Car was amazing all weekend long at the Halloween Classic in stock.

Set TQ in round 1, then reset it in round 2.

In round 3, Kyle Klingsforth and myself were swapping the lead back and forth for a new TQ. A couple minutes in while I am in the lead a lapped car takes me out. I was fuming, but it was just a couple of seconds so I thought I could recover. I drive like an angry idiot for a couple of laps, and then I try to get around Mike Hanulec too quickly and unintentionally take him out. I pull off the track after that.... no reason to continue causing havoc over toy cars. He was understandably very upset with me but we made amends. Kyle continues his clean run, however, and resets TQ by about 3 seconds over my time. Despite Hanulec getting dumped by me, he improves his time to 3rd on the grid, nearly bumping me out of 2nd.

Round 4 was Sunday morning, so I expected the grip to be a bit less as the track had sat overnight. For practice I made a small change and went out on new tires. The car felt even BETTER than it had the previous rounds. The track didn't feel greasy like I was expecting, so I was hoping that round 4 would allow the fastest times of the weekend for my car. Also, starting behind Kyle for this qualifier would give me a car to chase and hopefully improve my early lap times, as I can be a slow starter on occasion.

I do have a small tap that lets Hanulec by, and we basically make a 2-man freight train for 5 minutes. Kyle stays fairly clean from what I can tell, but the track had slowed down way more than I thought.... despite clean runs, no qualifying positions changed.

Started 2nd on the main grid. I was a tad worried about turning in to Kyle on the first turn, because my car was rotating in very strongly. Sure enough, coming into the infield I hug the wall tight and have to do a quick brake check and get tossed around. No one's fault at all..... that's what happens when 10 cars squeeze into 3 square feet of carpet! I get dropped to 10th from the start, drive like a bat out of hell and make it up to 4th at some point.... shortly after that, a car smacks my rear right tire going into the chicane, and it blows my rear diff out..... so with 30 seconds to go and a coffee-grinder noise emanating from my car, I'm forced to DNF.

Props to Awesomatix USA for terrorizing another national stock A-main.

I'm absolutely happy with how well the car did. It had the best pace for a good part of the entire weekend, and I received a lot of compliments on how smooth the car looked on the track.

I made a few changes from what I ran at the Southern Nationals. The front gear diff felt awesome. The groove was a bit narrow, but traction was great. The car was never tippy or edgy at any time. I personally think this setup rotates smoother and is a bit easier to drive than my previous one.

I had 4-hole pistons in the shocks from running at my local track (lots of track dots), but the shock package felt great at The Gate so I just left it. Since the layout was a bit more flowing I simply went up 50cst in the oil to smooth the car out.

The 1.4 front swaybar and shocks in the 2-hole felt a bit smoother overall then the 1.2 front swaybar and shocks in the 3-hole.

I also ran mod, but I was playing with setup all weekend. The car felt and looked fast, but I couldn't find a setup that I could drive consistently.... so it was more of a test session for me.

Thanks
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