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Old 09-29-2014, 06:10 AM   #196
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Anyone tried the RRS system at an indoor carpet track? I race on a very tight track and in theory the RRS could be something that would lower laptimes. I canīt quite understand how to set it up.
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Old 09-29-2014, 07:45 AM   #197
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Here's a setup I ended up with at the Southern Nats in Nashville last weekend. Qualified 4th, finished 3rd in the 17.5 A-main.

Gravity tires made a ton of grip, to the point that they would feel too gummy as the run went on. The car never wanted to traction roll, however. I ran 0 front camber so that I could drive the car as hard as needed given the grip level. On anything less than high bite or on other tires I'd start at least 1* camber.

The guys that have driven the car initially didn't like how much steering it had, but once you learn to be smooth with the steering input this setup can be really fast. I set full steering lock (knuckle to c-hub) at 100% dual-rate on the radio, and usually ran around 80%. I didn't get to test with an LTCR yet, but I always favor the Mazdaspeed 6.

A tight front gear diff worked well, too. Other things worth trying if you want the car to be a little more comfortable would be a 1.4 front swaybar, LTCR body, and fully long wheelbase.

The car only lacked a tad bit high-speed rotation, but was still comfortable to drive. An LTCR may fix that. It definitely made up for it in the infield.
Cody,

Thanks again for your help over the weekend. The setup worked quite well for me, the big difference is I am running a hybrid 411LE with many of the 3.0 items (V4 motor mount, alum chassis, split blocks, etc). I am still running the long shocks (450wt with Serpent White springs). I was also a bit softer on the front diff at 1 million. The car was very easy to drive and consistent start to finish, but as soft as it was, it transitioned slower then I would have liked. Possibly due to how progressive the Serpent springs feel. I found a broken front arm when I got home as well (running old style hard plastics) which probably didn't help. Other then some things like the old style bearing blocks and stuff, the only other major difference is I was using the center chassis stiffener.

I focused too much on my 12th over the weekend, but the TC was consistent and my driving was the major lack.

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Anyone tried the RRS system at an indoor carpet track? I race on a very tight track and in theory the RRS could be something that would lower laptimes. I canīt quite understand how to set it up.
Great question. I had the RRS on at the last 2 events I ran at. It was excellent the first weekend with Jacos, but ran into many other issues at the Southern Nats with the Gravity tires and unfortunately in trying to cure some traction rolling issues, it was one of the first things to go.

That being said, I had a few question on it, and was unable to find anyone who has thoroughly tested it. The instructions were missing a few major items for me. It did not specify which was which on the c-hubs and knuckles. My own testing and working with the geometry, it seems that the knuckles go on opposite (R on the left slide, L on the right side). I put the c-hubs on the normal sides (R on right, L on left) which even at 2 degrees, it seemed to make more sense that way. I also tried adding shims under the rear hinge pin block to remove that angle (which made the car feel a bit more consistent). The instructions also do not mention which blocks to use. Stock is .5 front, 3.5 rear. The instructions looked like .5 front, .5 rear. I did not have the .5 rear, so tried 1 and 1, and got some binding. Ended up with .5/3.5 and adjusted toe from there. The images on the website show 0 front, .5 rear, which is another option. I did outer holes, .5mm washers and did try 3mm of washers. Corner speed was improved, and felt more dramatic with the .5mm then the 3mm. I was running between 2.4 and 2.8* of camber at ride height. to get me between 3.0 and 3.2* of camber at 0mm ride height. It was suggested that I try 6degree hubs (I do not have any) by an Xray driver, but unfortunately with the tuning time I had, I was fighting the Gravity tires and decided to remove this extra variable.

A friend tried the ARC version on his car and was not pleased with it's outdoor asphalt performance. I have not tried it outdoors yet, though I may try it next week just to see what happens.

I'd love to hear what others are doing.
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Old 09-29-2014, 05:07 PM   #198
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Cody,

Thanks again for your help over the weekend. The setup worked quite well for me, the big difference is I am running a hybrid 411LE with many of the 3.0 items (V4 motor mount, alum chassis, split blocks, etc). I am still running the long shocks (450wt with Serpent White springs). I was also a bit softer on the front diff at 1 million. The car was very easy to drive and consistent start to finish, but as soft as it was, it transitioned slower then I would have liked. Possibly due to how progressive the Serpent springs feel. I found a broken front arm when I got home as well (running old style hard plastics) which probably didn't help. Other then some things like the old style bearing blocks and stuff, the only other major difference is I was using the center chassis stiffener.
.
Glad to help! Going to a 1.4 front swaybar, or standing the shocks up 1 more hole can will with the transition speed. I also think the short shocks react better on carpet, but the longer shocks can be easier to drive on low bite!
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Old 09-29-2014, 05:15 PM   #199
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Anyone tried the RRS system at an indoor carpet track? I race on a very tight track and in theory the RRS could be something that would lower laptimes. I canīt quite understand how to set it up.
I had a scratch-made one on the car for a little while. I really liked it on low bite carpet, or on tight layouts.

I basically just put mine on a setup station and set static toe around 2-2.5, then adjusted the "bumpsteer" as needed so that on full compression it was close to 4. I haven't used the official Serpent system so I can't tell you exact shimming and mounting spots
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:42 AM   #200
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Glad to help! Going to a 1.4 front swaybar, or standing the shocks up 1 more hole can will with the transition speed. I also think the short shocks react better on carpet, but the longer shocks can be easier to drive on low bite!
I'd have to check, but pretty sure I have the 1.4 on the front already. Shocks are mostly in though. I may switch it over to the short shocks as I have the ones from my 3.0 that I am not using. I have long shocks on the mod car for asphalt, and since I have most spring options for long, it seemed to make sense.

With no local indoor carpet tracks, I am sure we will be up at Nashville more this winter tweaking the cars here and there. Mostly nervous about next week. A friend went up to Kissimmee a couple weeks ago and said the new layout is more technical then before and the difference between tapping pipes and the ideal line is very close. I do want to play with the full long rear wheel base on asphalt, as I was very pleased with it on the carpet, and will bring the standard top deck with me as well. The Hot Race tires are nothing compared to the Gravity though, so I expect different issues to pop up.

Grant
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Old 09-30-2014, 09:06 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by orcadigital View Post
I'd have to check, but pretty sure I have the 1.4 on the front already. Shocks are mostly in though. I may switch it over to the short shocks as I have the ones from my 3.0 that I am not using. I have long shocks on the mod car for asphalt, and since I have most spring options for long, it seemed to make sense.

With no local indoor carpet tracks, I am sure we will be up at Nashville more this winter tweaking the cars here and there. Mostly nervous about next week. A friend went up to Kissimmee a couple weeks ago and said the new layout is more technical then before and the difference between tapping pipes and the ideal line is very close. I do want to play with the full long rear wheel base on asphalt, as I was very pleased with it on the carpet, and will bring the standard top deck with me as well. The Hot Race tires are nothing compared to the Gravity though, so I expect different issues to pop up.

Grant
Another thing to try is Yokomo black springs front and rear on carpet with the rest of that setup. The Yokomo springs are "soft" but seem to roll over less midcorner. They'll feel a little more stable and may provide the response you're looking for.
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Old 09-30-2014, 10:28 AM   #202
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Another thing to try is Yokomo black springs front and rear on carpet with the rest of that setup. The Yokomo springs are "soft" but seem to roll over less midcorner. They'll feel a little more stable and may provide the response you're looking for.
Good to know. I was running Yokomo pinks and blues initially, but went to the Serpent white's to get the weights as close to an Xray 2.3 as I could.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:33 PM   #203
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Good to know. I was running Yokomo pinks and blues initially, but went to the Serpent white's to get the weights as close to an Xray 2.3 as I could.
I think pink and blue is a decent combo for mod, but it always feels too stiff for stock in my opinion. Blue front/black rear can be worth trying on lower bite.
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Old 09-30-2014, 03:13 PM   #204
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I had a scratch-made one on the car for a little while. I really liked it on low bite carpet, or on tight layouts.

I basically just put mine on a setup station and set static toe around 2-2.5, then adjusted the "bumpsteer" as needed so that on full compression it was close to 4. I haven't used the official Serpent system so I can't tell you exact shimming and mounting spots
This is pretty much the same as what I did for setup. I think on a tight track the rear steer can be useful. JUst make sure your getting toe-in on compression and not toe-out. I saw one guy running it ass backwards and did nothing but complain on how bad it was, do ya figure. The total toe-in is something that you'll have to play with, just a personal preference thing there, no real solid number. The caster of the c-hub is going to be very small in effect as it will only change the wheelbase of the car very slightly and the amount that the wheel is turning isn't really effected for such a small rotation. I ran mine with the 4* c-hubs and they where leaning forward.

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I think pink and blue is a decent combo for mod, but it always feels too stiff for stock in my opinion. Blue front/black rear can be worth trying on lower bite.
I feel spring selection depends on the track. We just ran our first leg of the WCIC series and I had my car on blue/black springs, changed the springs to pink/blue and picked up a full tenth of a second on fast lap. The springs where the only thing changed and I really thought the car drove well with the blue/black combo, but was faster with the pink/blue. For feel going to the pink front just made the front of the car bite in just that little bit better that the car was looking for. Its really all just personal preference again, and perhaps in this case a oil change may have made the difference, but the springs where easier to do.

Also of note I was surprised just how close your setup is to what I ran for this race. Although I was on the 1.4 bars and my rear diff oil was 3k, the rest is almost identical.

I can also tell you that I have tried different combinations on these cars, and running a 3.0 with the long shocks and towers was very much a nightmare. I think Serpent got the aluminum chassis with the short shock package very close to perfect. Now the 2.0 with the 2.00mm hard chassis and long shocks and towers works very well for me. But I believe a lot of this has the do with the plain issue of the mass of the car. The 3.0 can get away with the short shocks because its not rolling the chassis as much so its not using as much of the shock as the 2.0 graphite car does.
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Old 09-30-2014, 03:26 PM   #205
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Great question. I had the RRS on at the last 2 events I ran at. It was excellent the first weekend with Jacos, but ran into many other issues at the Southern Nats with the Gravity tires and unfortunately in trying to cure some traction rolling issues, it was one of the first things to go.

That being said, I had a few question on it, and was unable to find anyone who has thoroughly tested it. The instructions were missing a few major items for me. It did not specify which was which on the c-hubs and knuckles. My own testing and working with the geometry, it seems that the knuckles go on opposite (R on the left slide, L on the right side). I put the c-hubs on the normal sides (R on right, L on left) which even at 2 degrees, it seemed to make more sense that way. I also tried adding shims under the rear hinge pin block to remove that angle (which made the car feel a bit more consistent). The instructions also do not mention which blocks to use. Stock is .5 front, 3.5 rear. The instructions looked like .5 front, .5 rear. I did not have the .5 rear, so tried 1 and 1, and got some binding. Ended up with .5/3.5 and adjusted toe from there. The images on the website show 0 front, .5 rear, which is another option. I did outer holes, .5mm washers and did try 3mm of washers. Corner speed was improved, and felt more dramatic with the .5mm then the 3mm. I was running between 2.4 and 2.8* of camber at ride height. to get me between 3.0 and 3.2* of camber at 0mm ride height. It was suggested that I try 6degree hubs (I do not have any) by an Xray driver, but unfortunately with the tuning time I had, I was fighting the Gravity tires and decided to remove this extra variable.

A friend tried the ARC version on his car and was not pleased with it's outdoor asphalt performance. I have not tried it outdoors yet, though I may try it next week just to see what happens.

I'd love to hear what others are doing.
I'm pretty sure those static rear toe settings are more for asphalt than carpet. Usually asphalt will run a lot less rear toe than carpet. At .5/.5 you'll probably run into bind issues with the drive shafts into the gear diff. I have never played with such narrow settings in the back, but you should check for the bind and increase width until its gone and then go from there with the rear steer added toe.
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Old 10-01-2014, 08:51 AM   #206
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This is pretty much the same as what I did for setup. I think on a tight track the rear steer can be useful. JUst make sure your getting toe-in on compression and not toe-out. I saw one guy running it ass backwards and did nothing but complain on how bad it was, do ya figure. The total toe-in is something that you'll have to play with, just a personal preference thing there, no real solid number. The caster of the c-hub is going to be very small in effect as it will only change the wheelbase of the car very slightly and the amount that the wheel is turning isn't really effected for such a small rotation. I ran mine with the 4* c-hubs and they where leaning forward.



I feel spring selection depends on the track. We just ran our first leg of the WCIC series and I had my car on blue/black springs, changed the springs to pink/blue and picked up a full tenth of a second on fast lap. The springs where the only thing changed and I really thought the car drove well with the blue/black combo, but was faster with the pink/blue. For feel going to the pink front just made the front of the car bite in just that little bit better that the car was looking for. Its really all just personal preference again, and perhaps in this case a oil change may have made the difference, but the springs where easier to do.

Also of note I was surprised just how close your setup is to what I ran for this race. Although I was on the 1.4 bars and my rear diff oil was 3k, the rest is almost identical.

I can also tell you that I have tried different combinations on these cars, and running a 3.0 with the long shocks and towers was very much a nightmare. I think Serpent got the aluminum chassis with the short shock package very close to perfect. Now the 2.0 with the 2.00mm hard chassis and long shocks and towers works very well for me. But I believe a lot of this has the do with the plain issue of the mass of the car. The 3.0 can get away with the short shocks because its not rolling the chassis as much so its not using as much of the shock as the 2.0 graphite car does.
Interesting on the RRS. I was using the hubs angled back, but liked the feel better when I ran the shim under the rear block to level it out. It did affect the roll center though. I was told 6* angled back might be the way to go too, but I did not have any 6* to try.

I am fairly new to the Yokomo springs, and have always gone with HPI or the Reflex as both have always felt the best to me. The guy I practice mod with runs Yokomo springs sometimes and just wanted to be able to test similar to him and Chicky runs Yokomo shocks and so I assume springs as well, so again, just to compare. I think I need to pick up a second set of blacks to test with.

I have the long shocks on the asphalt 3.0 car right now, but have not had the same testing time on them as the short shocks. I really liked the short shocks though, so might end up changing back. Hard to say, but will see how the car works next week.

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I'm pretty sure those static rear toe settings are more for asphalt than carpet. Usually asphalt will run a lot less rear toe than carpet. At .5/.5 you'll probably run into bind issues with the drive shafts into the gear diff. I have never played with such narrow settings in the back, but you should check for the bind and increase width until its gone and then go from there with the rear steer added toe.
Yeah I was just not sure how toe from the arms vs the knuckles was different on the rear. I know in the front running arm sweep (stock with the 3.0) and then various toe at the knuckles has different effects. I will say I was quite happy with 3* of rear toe on asphalt, much more then I expected to be. I tried 2.5 and 2 and the car did not feel as consistent in transition or in the sweeper. It just felt like I could not get on the power quite as quickly with the same confidence coming out of a corner as the increased toe gave me.
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Old 10-06-2014, 12:51 AM   #207
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Hi There,

Was wondering what the new Serpent electric weighs out of the box, race ready.
Cheers Guys
Les
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:18 AM   #208
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Hi There,

Was wondering what the new Serpent electric weighs out of the box, race ready.
Cheers Guys
Les
I'm at 1420gr with a 7200 lipo and a heavy wtf fan and alloy mount behind the motor. Drops right on 1380 when you have a 6000 lipo and no fan.
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:20 AM   #209
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Thank You
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:42 AM   #210
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I tested the RRS system on our tight indoor asphalt track and I had some mixed results. I feel with more testing that I'll really like it. After throwing it together with the front end out of my spare car I tested nearly a whole day before I found it made my rear end wider. Doh! I found with the height of the links on the chubs that I had to run a low roll center which I didn't sort out yet as I normally run a high center with longer links. Once I test some short links, tighter rear diff fluid and a skinnier wheel base I think I'll get the rear end how I really like it. I'm surprised considering I botched it together that it's made the twisty sections of the track much more drivable. I set the rear toe to 2.5 degrees static and was gaining to just over 4 degrees at full compression.
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