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Old 03-03-2014, 08:55 AM   #46
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Hi Martin.

In exit of corner with power on, I have to much oversteering, so the car driving line is unreliabel. Run droop 6 front, 5 rear. Ridehight 5 all over, shocks second hole measured from the outside. Inner hole on the inner position of the camberlinks, and with 2mm shims underneath, also on the outer links. 350CST. In the shocks, and soft linear springs.

Where do you surgest me to start looking for a solution ? I can post a pic of my setup if needed.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:34 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shock Tower View Post
Hi Martin.

In exit of corner with power on, I have to much oversteering, so the car driving line is unreliabel. Run droop 6 front, 5 rear. Ridehight 5 all over, shocks second hole measured from the outside. Inner hole on the inner position of the camberlinks, and with 2mm shims underneath, also on the outer links. 350CST. In the shocks, and soft linear springs.

Where do you surgest me to start looking for a solution ? I can post a pic of my setup if needed.
1) Increase the front droop, by going from 6 to 5. This will allow a little more rear weight transfer when applying power giving more grip to the rear.

2) Also you could go from 2mm inboard shims in the front to 3mm inboard shims to lower the front roll center a little. A lower front roll center will take away some front lateral grip.

3) I don't know what oil you run in your rear diff, but if you are running something like 3k then go down to 1.5k or even 1k.

You might not need all three changes.

Cheers.
Martin.
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:37 AM   #48
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Martin, hi.

What is your opinion on flex and when to use? High or low grip? Flex in the chassis seems to absorb movement so the springs work less
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:44 AM   #49
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quick question generally speaking.... onroad TC... what sort of thing should i see by having heavier shock oil in the rear than the front... assuming same springs on front and rear... and vice versa... heavier in the front than in the rear...
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:35 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Martin Crisp View Post
1) Increase the front droop, by going from 6 to 5. This will allow a little more rear weight transfer when applying power giving more grip to the rear.

2) Also you could go from 2mm inboard shims in the front to 3mm inboard shims to lower the front roll center a little. A lower front roll center will take away some front lateral grip.

3) I don't know what oil you run in your rear diff, but if you are running something like 3k then go down to 1.5k or even 1k.

You might not need all three changes.

Cheers.
Martin.
Thanks for your thoughts ! Just some clear up questions.

1: so you will go with 5 and 5 for front and rear droop ?

2: going to 3 mm shims on the inner camberlink, and leaving the 2mm shim at the c-hub camberlink ? And no adjustment to the rear. ?

3: I am running 2K in the geardiff.

Thanks again, and I have bought your setup app, and trying to get it to sink in

Just wondering, I didn't think I saw you using the terms like understeer and oversteering in the app. Is this similar to push and loose as terms you use ?
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:38 PM   #51
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Hello Martin

Great thread

I have one doubt:

When you raise the suspension arms front or rear by the suspension blocks this give more grip or less grip ??

Example: raise the suspension arms by put shims below the suspension blocks.


Thanks in advance.
Best regards:
Pedro Silva
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:34 PM   #52
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3) I don't know what oil you run in your rear diff, but if you are running something like 3k then go down to 1.5k or even 1k.
This looses me - I thought I understood it but then some locals convinced me opposite.

So thinner rear diff helps take steering out of the car?

My thought about it - thicker would make the car oversteer because it would be tougher for the tire underload (outside tire) to diff out/slip causing the car to drive off it more.

The locals convinced me that lighter would let the tire underload/slip and the front pull the car around, less drive off that tire.

I havent tested heavy vs light but plan too just to feel myself but like to know which theory is correct.
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:44 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Wilson View Post
Martin, hi.

What is your opinion on flex and when to use? High or low grip? Flex in the chassis seems to absorb movement so the springs work less
Chassis flex is not good for high grip tracks. The car will traction roll more easily. It is better for low grip scenarios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gocoogs View Post
quick question generally speaking.... onroad TC... what sort of thing should i see by having heavier shock oil in the rear than the front... assuming same springs on front and rear... and vice versa... heavier in the front than in the rear...
In my experience...

... a thicker rear oil makes the car have a little more steering at turn in but more stable in the middle of the corner when applying power

... a thicker front oil gives you a quicker turn-in response and makes the car feel loose in the middle especially when you start to apply power

Here is the summary from my app for the 6 different handling scenarios that I used to discuss each setup change throughout the app. The way to read this is if your car has that handling scenario, then make the adjustments listed below it.

Note: I validated the adjustments below based on material I read, authored by Swift Engineering Inc, race car engineer Neil Roberts.

Loose Off Power

Increase front bump and rebound Dampening and decrease rear bump and rebound dampening.

Loose On Power

decrease front bump and rebound dampening and increase bump and rebound rear dampening.

Loose Neutral Power

no affect

Push Off Power

Decrease front bump and rebound dampening and increase rear bump and rebound dampening.

Push On Power

Increase front bump and rebound dampening and decrease rear bump and rebound dampening.

Push Neutral Power

no affect


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shock Tower View Post
Thanks for your thoughts ! Just some clear up questions.

1: so you will go with 5 and 5 for front and rear droop ?

2: going to 3 mm shims on the inner camberlink, and leaving the 2mm shim at the c-hub camberlink ? And no adjustment to the rear. ?

3: I am running 2K in the geardiff.

Thanks again, and I have bought your setup app, and trying to get it to sink in

Just wondering, I didn't think I saw you using the terms like understeer and oversteering in the app. Is this similar to push and loose as terms you use ?
yes that is correct. Try 1.5k rear gear diff oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmc View Post
Hello Martin

Great thread

I have one doubt:

When you raise the suspension arms front or rear by the suspension blocks this give more grip or less grip ??

Example: raise the suspension arms by put shims below the suspension blocks.


Thanks in advance.
Best regards:
Pedro Silva
Yes it will give you more lateral grip, but the car will also feel less smooth in its transitions.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:55 PM   #54
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thanks Martin for your reply, much appreciated.

Cheers
Karl
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Old 03-03-2014, 03:37 PM   #55
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Thank you very much Martin!
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:35 PM   #56
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Sub'd
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:48 PM   #57
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Default March 3rd updates to LearnSetup.com App

I updated the caster and diff section's today, including talking about the pros / cons of a front diff versus a spool.

http://www.learnsetup.com/march-3rd-...setup-com-app/
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:56 PM   #58
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Wow great thread. Subscribed!!!! This should be a sticky on top!!
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:02 PM   #59
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brought both your apps Martin, thanks.

How about 1/12th scale?
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:02 PM   #60
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How do you control tire temperatures, mostly in the context of modified touring?

For example:
- Getting heat into the tires quickly in low ambient temperatures, or high grip carpet where the car isn't sliding much, or the compound is just a bit too hard for the track temperature.
- Keeping tires from overheating, like when the compound is a bit too soft for the track temperatures.
- Balancing heat between front and rear so that the balance doesn't change through a run

-Mike
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