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Old 05-13-2014, 03:39 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
I think my friend RK is referring to groove of death, as the premature wear on the inner sides of the tires

In my experience this more of an insert issue associated manly with some pre-mount spec tires

But I'm sure there are some things you can advise him of on setup ?
ah...yeah...all too familiar with that. some tires / inserts do this more than others for sure. In my experience (others may have different experience) the more air gap, the softer the insert and the taller the the tire the more this happens.

When I say "taller the tire"....

I mean that the sidewalls are a little taller and/or the center of the tire tends to be more rounded making the tire diam a little bigger, ...also makes the air gap bigger.
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:30 AM   #377
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ah...yeah...all too familiar with that. some tires / inserts do this more than others for sure. In my experience (others may have different experience) the more air gap, the softer the insert and the taller the the tire the more this happens.

When I say "taller the tire"....

I mean that the sidewalls are a little taller and/or the center of the tire tends to be more rounded making the tire diam a little bigger, ...also makes the air gap bigger.

Thanks Red-Bull and Martin. Indeed I ment the inside ring on the tire.
Also the Ride tires have a bigger airgap then the Sorex. Also the tires are more "plastic like" then the sorex ones which feel more rubbery.

Is there any thing, set-up wise, to reduce this ring?

Thanks in advance, Regards Robert
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:18 PM   #378
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I have a question about kick-up and it's affect on roll center.

If I raise the front suspension block by 1.0 mm and leave the rear block as is (0.0 mm), would this raise the roll center by 0.25, 0.5 mm, or 0.75? How much is the roll center affected by this change?

If you could shed some light on this, that would be great.
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:56 AM   #379
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Thanks Red-Bull and Martin. Indeed I ment the inside ring on the tire.
Also the Ride tires have a bigger airgap then the Sorex. Also the tires are more "plastic like" then the sorex ones which feel more rubbery.

Is there any thing, set-up wise, to reduce this ring?

Thanks in advance, Regards Robert
I am not aware of anything setup wise you can do to avoid this and still have a good handling car.

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Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
I have a question about kick-up and it's affect on roll center.

If I raise the front suspension block by 1.0 mm and leave the rear block as is (0.0 mm), would this raise the roll center by 0.25, 0.5 mm, or 0.75? How much is the roll center affected by this change?

If you could shed some light on this, that would be great.
There is no one answer for this, as it depends on the rest of the geometry of your suspension. You would need to model your suspension geometry to truly answer this.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:24 AM   #380
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Okay, Thanks Martin :-)

Regards Robert
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Old 05-16-2014, 12:38 AM   #381
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Hi,
I'm curious, how does one setup high and low speed damping for very low grip conditions?
Or are there other more important options i should consider to gain overall grip.
Regards,
David
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:05 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by niemand View Post
Hi,
I'm curious, how does one setup high and low speed damping for very low grip conditions?
Or are there other more important options i should consider to gain overall grip.
Regards,
David
Not much different to high grip shock n spring setup on bumpy track but maybe lower roll centers for the low grip conditions.
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:56 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by niemand View Post
Hi,
I'm curious, how does one setup high and low speed damping for very low grip conditions?
Or are there other more important options i should consider to gain overall grip.
Regards,
David
An interesting question. With low grip tracks you are typically going to run lower spring rates to allow for weight transfer allowing you to control the balance of the car with braking and throttle. With higher grip tracks you tend to run higher spring rates because the higher grip will cause the car to dive, squat and lean more and you don't want those movements to go too far.

Since your spring rate is changing, then your dampening should change accordingly. i.e. the harder the spring, the more dampening you should use to keep the spring from being too springy!
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:53 PM   #384
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Martin, what do you look for in a body shell?

When do you decide the body requires replacement?

The second question relates to mostly to LW bodies. I have found although the LW body still looks ok the car starts to loose performance. If you pick up a new shell and compare against the old shell there is often a lot more stiffness in the new shell.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:27 PM   #385
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Thanks a lot for this thread Martin I've used a bunch of the posts here in to finally get my dialed in. And understand more about what makes it handle. I have two questions though. I run on a med to low grip slightly bumpy asphalt track. I've got the car to within .2 sec of the fastest guys the rest I attribute to my lack of driving skill. But to get it there I'm running about 4.7 mm ride height in the front and dragging a little chassis on the high speed sweeper. Is there any setup change you can suggest to get it back up around 5 mm without loosing the front bite I've worked so hard to get? And second question what effect does shimming the outer camber ball up does that lower or raise roll center etc..??
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:30 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by frozenpod View Post
Martin, what do you look for in a body shell?

When do you decide the body requires replacement?

The second question relates to mostly to LW bodies. I have found although the LW body still looks ok the car starts to loose performance. If you pick up a new shell and compare against the old shell there is often a lot more stiffness in the new shell.
I like the LW bodies especially for indoor carpet when grip is very high. The LW body helps reduce traction rolling. In terms of when to replace it, I replace it when it gets cracks typically in the front wheel arch.

I prefer the normal weight bodies for high speed outdoor asphalt as the bodies does not deform as much as the LW body at speed.

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Originally Posted by scooby61 View Post
Thanks a lot for this thread Martin I've used a bunch of the posts here in to finally get my dialed in. And understand more about what makes it handle. I have two questions though. I run on a med to low grip slightly bumpy asphalt track. I've got the car to within .2 sec of the fastest guys the rest I attribute to my lack of driving skill. But to get it there I'm running about 4.7 mm ride height in the front and dragging a little chassis on the high speed sweeper. Is there any setup change you can suggest to get it back up around 5 mm without loosing the front bite I've worked so hard to get? And second question what effect does shimming the outer camber ball up does that lower or raise roll center etc..??
Are you running rake? ie. your front is lower than your rear? I fyou are, make sure you keep the same amount of rake.

I would raise the ride height an eual amount in the front and the rear (this would handle the scenario of you running some rake).

You will need to make some adjustments however since you have raised the ride height.

1) you will need to add some more camber back into all for corners so you have the same static camber.
2) raising the ride height will also raise the roll center, so you may want to lower the roll center just a little bit by raising the inboard upper link by 0.5mm or even 0.25mm

To answer your question about the upper link outer ball joint...
If you add shims to raise that outboard upper link ball joint then this will raise the roll center.
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Old 05-26-2014, 02:46 PM   #387
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Hey Martin,
If I may ask you another question.
I'm experiencing some wheel spin when accelerating out of the corner. I feel I have no "rip" out of the corner. I’ve also driven different cars at the same day (swapped transmitters) and they all had more rip out of the corner. All the cars, drive E.T.S. Spec 13,5T.
Can you give me some set-up advice to get more rear traction while accelerating, other than adding more rear toe. I’d like to keep the 2.5 degree and don’t want to go to the 3 degree arms, the other cars where running 2 degree’s rear toe.

Thanks in advance,
Regards Robert
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Old 05-26-2014, 09:00 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Martin Crisp View Post
I like the LW bodies especially for indoor carpet when grip is very high. The LW body helps reduce traction rolling. In terms of when to replace it, I replace it when it gets cracks typically in the front wheel arch.

I prefer the normal weight bodies for high speed outdoor asphalt as the bodies does not deform as much as the LW body at speed.
Thanks Martin.
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Old 05-27-2014, 07:18 AM   #389
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Hey Martin what would be the right way to set up a sway bar on an off road shot course. What should I look for I do make sure both sway bar links are the same but when installed I always have one side better then the other. So if i was a to take the right side with no shocks on and move the arm up the left arm moves the same. but when I do the left side I don't get the same.
Thanks.
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Old 05-27-2014, 08:50 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Robert_K View Post
Hey Martin,
If I may ask you another question.
I'm experiencing some wheel spin when accelerating out of the corner. I feel I have no "rip" out of the corner. Iíve also driven different cars at the same day (swapped transmitters) and they all had more rip out of the corner. All the cars, drive E.T.S. Spec 13,5T.
Can you give me some set-up advice to get more rear traction while accelerating, other than adding more rear toe. Iíd like to keep the 2.5 degree and donít want to go to the 3 degree arms, the other cars where running 2 degreeís rear toe.

Thanks in advance,
Regards Robert
Simplest is thicker rear diff oil, which you should be able to do if you've reduced rear toe already.
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