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Old 03-22-2014, 09:42 AM   #196
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Hey Martin Thanks for the help with
The tbo3r , I changed the roll centers
On front and rear as you suggested by
1mm on each, would this be enough to
See a change?
Also going to try all 4 springs the same
as you suggested and was wondering if I
Should start stiff,medium, or soft all the
way around? Currently using tamiya
Springs as well. And will set the droop to
1.5 above ride height. Currently is at 2mm
Front and rear.
Thanks
Bill
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:09 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
Ok maby I dont need to own a pc or cell phone but I can not find ur app . I have a android S4 and cant find ur app. Help me !
As Doug pointed out it is not availabel on the android or apple store. Instead it is available to sign up for at http://www.learnsetup.com

Once you have signed up you can access the login page for the app in one of two ways.

One way is to go back to the LearnSetup.com page and in the upper right hand corner there is a "login" link. Just click on that link and you will be taken to the login page.

The other option is to navigate to http://app.learnsetup.com


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Originally Posted by dragonracing View Post
thanks martin. i sent you an email. doug ..


thanks martin im all set up.
Awesome! ...and thanks for letting me know about your situation so I could address it.
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:12 AM   #198
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Originally Posted by Atechbh View Post
Hey Martin Thanks for the help with
The tbo3r , I changed the roll centers
On front and rear as you suggested by
1mm on each, would this be enough to
See a change?
Also going to try all 4 springs the same
as you suggested and was wondering if I
Should start stiff,medium, or soft all the
way around? Currently using tamiya
Springs as well. And will set the droop to
1.5 above ride height. Currently is at 2mm
Front and rear.
Thanks
Bill
Yes...1mm is enough to notice a difference. I can feel the difference with just 0.5mm.

I would start with the tamiya blue springs all around and then also try the tamiya white up front with blue on the rear if you want the car to have a little less steering.

leave the rear droop at 2mm and only change the front to 1.5mm and the try again at 2mm in the front and 3mm in the back...see what you like better.

Martin.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:00 AM   #199
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Hi Martin, is the $10 subscription fee automatically renewed every year ?
Thanks.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:03 AM   #200
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Hi Martin
Just reading the bump steer section of Learnsetup.

What happens if the ball joint on the steering knuckle is above the horizontal plane you reference?
I ask as I have to add shims to make the line between the ball joints horizontal.

Thanks
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:26 PM   #201
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hi martin,trying to log in to learnsetup and i cant,is there a delay,ive only just signed up
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Old 03-22-2014, 02:22 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jag88 View Post
Hi Martin, is the $10 subscription fee automatically renewed every year ?
Thanks.
Hi

Yes the eCommerce provider I use is supposed to automatically renew your subscription.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Hi Martin
Just reading the bump steer section of Learnsetup.

What happens if the ball joint on the steering knuckle is above the horizontal plane you reference?
I ask as I have to add shims to make the line between the ball joints horizontal.

Thanks
Skiddins
When the ball joint on the steering knuckle starts out above the horizontal plane I reference in the app, the arc that ball joint follows when the suspension is compressed starts to move the ball joint inward more quickly compared to when the ball joint is on the horizontal plane.

For reference I included the definition for the horizontal scenario directly from my app.

e.g. A) For example, lets assume that your ball end on your steering rack and steering knuckle are on the same horizontal plane. As the suspension compresses, that ball end connected to the steering knuckle will arc in towards the centerline of the car.

So basically this translates into more bumpsteer. i.e. it happens quicker and goes further.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chasingthepack View Post
hi martin,trying to log in to learnsetup and i cant,is there a delay,ive only just signed up
I sent you a private message so I can get things sorted out for you.
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:02 PM   #203
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Mr. Crisp, how you been sir? Let's say my set up is really good for a track, but certain parts of the track (carpet) are bumpy and really unsettle the car. What can somebody do without changing too much, but allow the car to be smoother over the bumps? Lighter shock oil maybe?
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:39 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Adam B View Post
Mr. Crisp, how you been sir? Let's say my set up is really good for a track, but certain parts of the track (carpet) are bumpy and really unsettle the car. What can somebody do without changing too much, but allow the car to be smoother over the bumps? Lighter shock oil maybe?
Hey Adam

This is a good question. I remember running into a similar situation at a ROAR carpet race because they had used something other than wood as the subfloor. The result was a very rippled carpet surface. I did not want to just go with lighter oil because that can lead to transitions that are too quick and cause a loss of traction and smoothness. So what I did was go up on the oil but also made the piston holes bigger by .1 mm. By making the piston holes bigger you reduce the high speed bump resistance of the shock (some may refer to this as "pack"). By going to a thick oil I could keep the low speed bump basically where it was before.

So this allowed me to keep a smooth transition, but handle the bumps better.

Cheers.

Martin.
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:11 PM   #205
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Thanks martin for the learn setup access. i had to refer to it last night. i was having a loose off power upon entry to the turns. so i changed rear springs to a a softer spring by 2 steps. made a good improvement. i also changed my driving style a bit. i was drivnig my associated 6.1wc very aggressively. trying to take too tight of a line and really tossing it around. i decided to drive a smooth flowing line and it made a huge difference. i used to have to bump from the b mains to get into the a. last night i qualified 4th and ended up 3rd with a tight nose to tail battle for the second spot. i had a fun night of racing my sedan (finally) after a couple weeks of frustration and head scratching on my setup. your app is great. thank you very much!
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Old 03-23-2014, 05:48 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by dragonracing View Post
Thanks martin for the learn setup access. i had to refer to it last night. i was having a loose off power upon entry to the turns. so i changed rear springs to a a softer spring by 2 steps. made a good improvement. i also changed my driving style a bit. i was drivnig my associated 6.1wc very aggressively. trying to take too tight of a line and really tossing it around. i decided to drive a smooth flowing line and it made a huge difference. i used to have to bump from the b mains to get into the a. last night i qualified 4th and ended up 3rd with a tight nose to tail battle for the second spot. i had a fun night of racing my sedan (finally) after a couple weeks of frustration and head scratching on my setup. your app is great. thank you very much!
Outstanding! Driving smooth is always faster, especially in the long run! Good job!

Martin.
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Old 03-23-2014, 06:22 PM   #207
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Martin can you tell me are there any benifits to stiffening the chassis flex at the front ?,i tried something today in 17.5 blinky (center post)and felt that it made the car sharper,i couldnt come to a solid conclusion as we had mixed weather,i felt it gave more turn in and on power steering but probably to much mid,and it would hook ,but i put that down to not changing any bumpsteer shims.i had 2mm on a xray t4
at the end of the meeting i changed motor to 13.5 boosted and the car really came to life ,really flowed through the chicane,and could get on the throttle earlier mid to exit even on some of the tighter turns,and gained more corner speed
whats your take on this?its just an experiment,i left it in all day to try and tame the rear while keeping 2.5 toe in,which i kinda succeeded with,just need to smooth out the mid


i had a bad day with qualifying and ended up 7th but in this final(purple and blue car) i managed to get up to 2nd and almost 1st at the line,heres the vid so you can gauge against the others
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVIompRZm58
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Last edited by chasingthepack; 03-23-2014 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 03-23-2014, 08:49 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by chasingthepack View Post
Martin can you tell me are there any benifits to stiffening the chassis flex at the front ?,i tried something today in 17.5 blinky (center post)and felt that it made the car sharper,i couldnt come to a solid conclusion as we had mixed weather,i felt it gave more turn in and on power steering but probably to much mid,and it would hook ,but i put that down to not changing any bumpsteer shims.i had 2mm on a xray t4
at the end of the meeting i changed motor to 13.5 boosted and the car really came to life ,really flowed through the chicane,and could get on the throttle earlier mid to exit even on some of the tighter turns,and gained more corner speed
whats your take on this?its just an experiment,i left it in all day to try and tame the rear while keeping 2.5 toe in,which i kinda succeeded with,just need to smooth out the mid


i had a bad day with qualifying and ended up 7th but in this final(purple and blue car) i managed to get up to 2nd and almost 1st at the line,heres the vid so you can gauge against the others
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVIompRZm58
Hey Richard - I was not sure which car was yours in the video as I saw a few cars that might be purple and blue. Sorry.

Not sure if you saw the "chassis flex" section in my LearnSetup.com app, but I think that will answer your questions.

The way you described the handling of your car seems fairly consistent with my testing on this as well, especially in the middle to exit of the corner.

If you like the everything but the mid corner over steer you were experiencing then you could leave the chassis flex as you have it and perhaps try increasing the ackerman and/or lowering the front roll center.

Not sure if you have tire warmers or not, but it looks cold in that vid, so that could also help with the early laps.

Cheers,
Martin.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:17 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by Martin Crisp View Post
Hey Richard - I was not sure which car was yours in the video as I saw a few cars that might be purple and blue. Sorry.

Not sure if you saw the "chassis flex" section in my LearnSetup.com app, but I think that will answer your questions.

The way you described the handling of your car seems fairly consistent with my testing on this as well, especially in the middle to exit of the corner.

If you like the everything but the mid corner over steer you were experiencing then you could leave the chassis flex as you have it and perhaps try increasing the ackerman and/or lowering the front roll center.

Not sure if you have tire warmers or not, but it looks cold in that vid, so that could also help with the early laps.

Cheers,
Martin.
hi martin,i havent had a chance to get onto the site yet,but will before the weekend,we have 2 nationals coming up so getting set for them,both at the same track (not the one in the vid)on consecutive weekends,im sure your app will help me get the car set right,ill look into the ackerman and i had 2mm shims on both inner and outer on the front (we had mixed conditions on sunday with rain,hail and 40mph winds so grip was good then low then damp patches) and 1 and 4 on the rear ,i do use tyre warmers,and yes it was freezing,track temp was around 8c air 5c i was using a worn set of sorex 28ry's (i chose worn tyres as they are thinner with less rubber and maintain the temp better)if you count back 6 cars at the start (one driver went home),i was 7th infront of the white/pink car,when the cars come into the chicane im 3rd
i end up second right on the bumper of first,granted i got the positions due to the others mistakes,my car seems to change direction faster than the others cars,which you can see as we approach the chicane,thanks
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Last edited by chasingthepack; 03-24-2014 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:36 PM   #210
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Ok so I have tamed the traction rolling some on my car, but still having some issues. I think it is coming from me having to much initial turn in. I have turned the expo down to 80% to help some with it, but it still wants to dig in hard on corner entry. My line of thought is this is throwing all the weight to the font outside tire, then roll-o-rama. I already have a half weight heaver oil in front along with then next heavier spring. In an effort to keep the car balanced, what would be the next step in reducing turn in? As it is now I have plenty of rear traction as well. When the car doesnt roll, it rotates on a dime.
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