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Old 12-24-2013, 06:36 AM   #46
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Id talk to solara about the price of the tires. if something can be worked out to get the price down to something like 30 for a set of 4 that will help the initial viability not only of the LM1/LMPC class ITSELF but also of the future LMP1 class once we have a good solid 30-50 LM1 racers nationwide (that way if an event is put on later we have a few solid mains for said event)
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Old 12-24-2013, 07:21 AM   #47
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I've already bit the bullet and have an LM-1. For me it was a no brainer as I have the SP-1 F1 already. With the parts interchange it only made sense. The same is true for my CRC 10th and 12th scales. As I typically don't sell stuff, they're all still in my collection. With as many collectors out there as me, there are going to be more car types than currently active classes. So I agree with points made by Howard, Ed, BP and TD.

We have one body at present. The chassis must fit under that body. The wheel base must match the cut lines. There is currently only one set of tires: premounted on 14 mm rear hexes, 5 mm bearings in the front. I would encourage everyone to give them a try before discounting them. Again, the word from SP is that they will offer them for $40 a full set, premounted. Other foam should be allowed at some point as long as it is not detrimental to the class. Single stud mounting for rear tires is going to be a major sticking point for a lot of racers trying to convert. That is one point that needs serious discussion. At some point the cost of conversion may or may not cost as much as an LM-1.
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Old 12-24-2013, 08:05 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by liljohn1064 View Post
I've already bit the bullet and have an LM-1. For me it was a no brainer as I have the SP-1 F1 already. With the parts interchange it only made sense. The same is true for my CRC 10th and 12th scales. As I typically don't sell stuff, they're all still in my collection. With as many collectors out there as me, there are going to be more car types than currently active classes. So I agree with points made by Howard, Ed, BP and TD.

We have one body at present. The chassis must fit under that body. The wheel base must match the cut lines. There is currently only one set of tires: premounted on 14 mm rear hexes, 5 mm bearings in the front. I would encourage everyone to give them a try before discounting them. Again, the word from SP is that they will offer them for $40 a full set, premounted. Other foam should be allowed at some point as long as it is not detrimental to the class. Single stud mounting for rear tires is going to be a major sticking point for a lot of racers trying to convert. That is one point that needs serious discussion. At some point the cost of conversion may or may not cost as much as an LM-1.
I already have a RC10R5 converted to run F103 wheels and tires. I used a F103 axle assy and reamed the bearing carriers for the 10mm bearings. I'm using the RJ Speed Porsche 962 body with the rear of the kick up cut out and mounted up high to preserve the scale look. WGT cars can be converted, doesn't take much. I did move the front suspension in to get the track width correct with the F1 wheels. I'll post pics later.

I have an LM1 also. Very nice kit. I can this developing into a fun class once wheels/tires can get sorted.
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:32 AM   #49
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I already have a RC10R5 converted to run F103 wheels and tires. I used a F103 axle assy and reamed the bearing carriers for the 10mm bearings. I'm using the RJ Speed Porsche 962 body with the rear of the kick up cut out and mounted up high to preserve the scale look. WGT cars can be converted, doesn't take much. I did move the front suspension in to get the track width correct with the F1 wheels. I'll post pics later.

I have an LM1 also. Very nice kit. I can this developing into a fun class once wheels/tires can get sorted.
Howard and Rick now have chimed in on this, so I thought I'd put up some numbers directly from TQ:

Mix and match F104 rear end:
Tuning Haus TUH1174 6x10x3 Flanged bearing ABEC 5 - $2.99 each
Yeah racing F104-014SS Rear axle - $3.99
3Racing F104-11/LB locking hub and spacer for left rear - $12.49
3Racing F104-06/LB Out Tuned Ball Diffset - $18.99

or in True Blue:
Tuning Haus TUH1174 6x10x3 Flanged Bearing ABEC 5 - $2.99 each
Tamiya 84173 rear axle - $6.99
Tamiya 54240 rear clamp hub - $9.99
Tamiya 3450157 rear spacer - $3.99
Tamiya 54158 F104 Diff housing set - $28.99

You will also want the diff thrust bearing in the long run: Tamiya 53136 - $7.49. It makes a world of difference in either diff.
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Old 12-24-2013, 02:34 PM   #50
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Then specify a minimum width. But don't say someone can't use a particular chassis. As long as the car uses whatever tires/rims are required, and meets the dimensions, it should be allowed. It doesn't take much to widen the car a few mm. USGT guys do it all the time.



I agree with the wheelbase requirement.

And while I don't mind the principle of spec tires/rims, I DO mind when those spec tires/rims cost $60 for a set. That's twice what a set of 1/8 scale nitro foams cost! In this case I think it is best to just specify the min/max diameter and width to encourage some competition in the market.

Yes, there should be a minimum OD for tires, to preserve scale looks.
I am all for keeping racing affordable, even being a guy trying to make a living selling this stuff. True, the SP premounted foams are a bit pricey, but they supposedly have pretty good wear characteristics, and the higher price should discourage people from turning them to dust on the truer.
It looks as though the Courage body is still available ad if people are going to commit to running it, I will stock as many as I can get. My goal with any class I support is to take the experimentation out of the equation, I don't think people should go though ten sets of different tires to find the best combo. I was open to mixing up the motors because I think traffic and track layout will even things up.
What I don't think this should turn into is a class where people are showing up with one off hand built chassis, and bodies that are hacked every which way to fit on them. Call me a worry wart, but I have seen it time and time again
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:42 PM   #51
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Its a fair concern liljohn. thats why I think the LM1/LMPC numbers need to be built up first before rolling out the LMP1 Class and even then Iit needs to be handled very carefully, keeping a good balance of cost effectiveness while allowing some freedom within the structure to let racers bring a variety of chassis to the table.
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Old 12-26-2013, 05:26 AM   #52
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You can fit a Tamiya body to a old WGT chassis tho
10R5 with the Tamiya Toyota TS20 body.
Also the Rival body will fit.

Regards Roy




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Old 12-26-2013, 06:03 AM   #53
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You can fit a Tamiya body to a old WGT chassis tho
10R5 with the Tamiya Toyota TS20 body.
Also the Rival body will fit.

Regards Roy




Roy,
With all due respect, this is what I'm talking about. The car in the pics would probably put the LM1 (the car this class is all about) at a total disadvantage.
There is no way that the SP wheel/tire package is going to fit under those bodies and look right. Again, whatever small clubs or shops want to do is fine, I think what I am talking about is a national rules set like VTA, UF1, USGT, etc.....
In thinking about it a 103GT in order to run the SP wheel/tire package may have to run a 104 front suspension and axle to make the tires fit under the body, and that might not even work.
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:43 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP SHADOW View Post
Roy,
With all due respect, this is what I'm talking about. The car in the pics would probably put the LM1 (the car this class is all about) at a total disadvantage.
There is no way that the SP wheel/tire package is going to fit under those bodies and look right. Again, whatever small clubs or shops want to do is fine, I think what I am talking about is a national rules set like VTA, UF1, USGT, etc.....
In thinking about it a 103GT in order to run the SP wheel/tire package may have to run a 104 front suspension and axle to make the tires fit under the body, and that might not even work.
Hi Brad, I just contacted Rivall.nl to see if they ship to US. I think the LM1
wheels and tires would fit this body. I am trying to order one just to see if they
do fit. I got an LM1 SP body and was able to use my old F104 with the Rsector 200mm kit and had no problems using the 103GT fron bumper. I
will post results as soon as I can get the Rivall body. See my version.
Regards
Norman
PS. The wheelbase is about 1-2mm off but I can live with that.
Attached Thumbnails
LeMans LMP1: 200mm Pan Class Discussion-imgp0012.jpg   LeMans LMP1: 200mm Pan Class Discussion-imgp0013.jpg  
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Old 12-26-2013, 07:16 AM   #55
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This class needs to have a special 'catch' feature that makes you want to race it other then "I like how the body looks" or because "its fair, its spec racing". That's what is the draw with UF1, USGT, VTA.

This class needs to have a unique format for it to appeal to the masses. It's too hard to run more then 2 classes at a local race anyway, and are you just going to shelve your F1 car, or USGT or VTA (seems to be the type of racer that would be interested) car to run this class because of the body?

What will make you/me want to run a LM-1??

21.5 blinky spec cars are hardly going to draw me to the class, there seems to be enough sentiment towards that motor combo and 'foams for now, rubber when its available' mantra that it should be THE RULE. Alternate chassis will come and eventually be accepted. Look what Tamiya has done with F1? It used to either be the only chassis or the spec chassis but competition has lead to open chassis adoption without discrepancy in speed.

So IMHO the racing format needs to be the DRAW of the class. Run 10 minutes, run backwards, run with USGT cars, do something unique because I don't want to see another class whose goal it is to be SPEC diluting race entries to 4-5 cars because we already have that.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:16 AM   #56
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This class needs to have a special 'catch' feature that makes you want to race it other then "I like how the body looks" or because "its fair, its spec racing". That's what is the draw with UF1, USGT, VTA.

This class needs to have a unique format for it to appeal to the masses. It's too hard to run more then 2 classes at a local race anyway, and are you just going to shelve your F1 car, or USGT or VTA (seems to be the type of racer that would be interested) car to run this class because of the body?

What will make you/me want to run a LM-1??

21.5 blinky spec cars are hardly going to draw me to the class, there seems to be enough sentiment towards that motor combo and 'foams for now, rubber when its available' mantra that it should be THE RULE. Alternate chassis will come and eventually be accepted. Look what Tamiya has done with F1? It used to either be the only chassis or the spec chassis but competition has lead to open chassis adoption without discrepancy in speed.

So IMHO the racing format needs to be the DRAW of the class. Run 10 minutes, run backwards, run with USGT cars, do something unique because I don't want to see another class whose goal it is to be SPEC diluting race entries to 4-5 cars because we already have that.
A 12 minute or more run with a two man team, at least 2 pit stops, and 2 driver swaps might be cool. Split the time as close to equal as possible between each driver. For a fun event, you know someone is going to want to do a 2.4 hour enduro run. Running with USGT would be ok with me.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:30 AM   #57
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A 12 minute or more run with a two man team, at least 2 pit stops, and 2 driver swaps might be cool. Split the time as close to equal as possible between each driver. For a fun event, you know someone is going to want to do a 2.4 hour enduro run. Running with USGT would be ok with me.
I like what you are thinking; something has to be special about the RACING and not the car.

8 minute qualifiers, 2 driver teams, each driver must complete at least (1) qualifier, 15 minute main with (1) pit stop between 7-9 minutes, must include driver swap.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:31 AM   #58
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An entire heat or two running on a carpet track would look amazing. I hope this class takes off.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:13 AM   #59
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I like what you are thinking; something has to be special about the RACING and not the car.

8 minute qualifiers, 2 driver teams, each driver must complete at least (1) qualifier, 15 minute main with (1) pit stop between 7-9 minutes, must include driver swap.
You bet, it needs to reflect the full size version in some ways. I like the thought of a stop window like between 7 and 9 minutes in the main as that plays into strategy, not just driving. You have 12 guys on a stand and sure don't want to swap drivers the same time everyone/anyone else is.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:07 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by nrtv20 View Post
This class needs to have a special 'catch' feature that makes you want to race it other then "I like how the body looks" or because "its fair, its spec racing". That's what is the draw with UF1, USGT, VTA.

This class needs to have a unique format for it to appeal to the masses. It's too hard to run more then 2 classes at a local race anyway, and are you just going to shelve your F1 car, or USGT or VTA (seems to be the type of racer that would be interested) car to run this class because of the body?

What will make you/me want to run a LM-1??

21.5 blinky spec cars are hardly going to draw me to the class, there seems to be enough sentiment towards that motor combo and 'foams for now, rubber when its available' mantra that it should be THE RULE. Alternate chassis will come and eventually be accepted. Look what Tamiya has done with F1? It used to either be the only chassis or the spec chassis but competition has lead to open chassis adoption without discrepancy in speed.

So IMHO the racing format needs to be the DRAW of the class. Run 10 minutes, run backwards, run with USGT cars, do something unique because I don't want to see another class whose goal it is to be SPEC diluting race entries to 4-5 cars because we already have that.
Nick,
I agree, I am not trying to deter or exclude people, but how would you feel if you invested in an LM1 and it was pretty much obsolete the first time you put it on track because of a homegrown car that uses special parts and tires?
This class needs to not worry about track records and fast laps, it needs to be about good racing, working together and being the center of attention every time it is on track. These cars will easily run 20-25 minutes on a battery, which I think is appropriate if you are going to do driver changes. In the interest of time you do a uf1 style qualifier to set the grid , maybe a 5 minute open session before the main and then run a 20-25 minute race with driver change. If you get 8-10 2man teams every time, that is a pretty good turnout.
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