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Old 12-20-2013, 06:34 AM   #16
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If the LM-A body can fit on a WGT chassis we could have a full WEC/TUSCC style program with LMP1, LMP2, LMPC/LM1 and GTE/GTLM/WGT classes .
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:40 AM   #17
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Edit: Double post

Last edited by trackdesigner71; 12-20-2013 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:40 AM   #18
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Here are the rules I have kinda thrown together that have given everybody a good baseline to start from in the debate for this class (could probably tweak them to create a P class for converted WGT cars):

LMP1 Class

Chassis: any F1 style chassis (including LM1)
Motor: 17.5 (Open)
Battery 2S 7.44v
Body: Speed Passion LM-A
ESC: Open
Tire: Open
Drive Ratio: 26/72
Minimum Weight: 1200g (that's grams for those who aren't sure)
Minimum Ride Height: 6mm

LM1 (or LMPC)
Chassis: Speed Passion LM1 only
Motor: 21.5
Battery 2S 7.44v
Body: Speed Passion LM-A
ESC: Blinky/Sportsman
Tire: Kit Foam (No truing of tires)
Drive Ratio: 26/72
Minimum Weight 1200g
Minimum Ride Height: 6mm
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
Here are the rules I have kinda thrown together that have given everybody a good baseline to start from in the debate for this class (could probably tweak them to create a P class for converted WGT card):

LMP1 Class

Chassis: any F1 style chassis (including LM1)
Motor: 17.5 (Open)
Battery 2S 7.44v
Body: Speed Passion LM-A
ESC: Open
Tire: Open
Drive Ratio: 26/72
Minimum Weight: 1200g (that's grams for those who aren't sure)
Minimum Ride Height: 6mm

LM1 (or LMPC)
Chassis: Speed Passion LM1 only
Motor: 21.5
Battery 2S 7.44v
Body: Speed Passion LM-A
ESC: Blinky/Sportsman
Tire: Kit Foam (No truing of tires)
Drive Ratio: 26/72
Minimum Weight 1200g
Minimum Ride Height: 6mm
I don't mind a spec class for the SP LM1, but that is best discussed in the thread for it.

This LMP1 class should not be restricted to just F1 chassis or the SP LM1 chassis. It should include ANY chassis that has the correct dimensions, and accepts whatever tires/rims are called out (which should not be brand-specific, either). There are many WGT and other 1/10 pan chassis languishing out there that would be perfect for this class.
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:07 AM   #20
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I think the top level LMP1 class should be a fairly open class with just a few rules.

Motor: 17.5 (open)
Battery: 2S
Body: Any LeMans style body including but not limited to past Tamiya bodies such as the 787B, the open cockpit Courage body, and the LM-A body.
ESC: Blinky. I still believe we need to keep this in check.
Tire: Open
Chassis: Open. Custom builds allowed. RWD only.
Suspension type: Open. Solid axle or independent suspension allowed.
Minimum weight 1200g.
Max width: 200mm
Ride height: Open

Basically as long as you have a LeMans prototype style body, your car meets minimum weight requirements and dimensions, has a 2s battery, and a 17.5T motor with no timing, you are good to go. There are so many variables that are open that you don't need to add motor timing into the mix. Even the real cars attempt to equalize this area out.

I would envision a lower LM1 class to be more spec like limited to over the counter products.
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:59 AM   #21
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Ride height: Open
We should spec a minimum ride height to save the carpet. I believe 4mm is the value normally used for 1/10 pan cars.

We should also consider an approved body list, like VTA has. Who makes the approval is an unknown at this point.

Here's a dead thread where most of this stuff has already been discussed, and it may provide some good ideas:

RCHSR: Radio Controlled Historic Sportscar Racing
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:04 AM   #22
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Double post, courtesy of an RCTech glitch. Honest, it wasn't me!
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:37 AM   #23
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I do agree that LMP1 could stand to be a more open class as you suggest Fred. LMPC/LM1 could be the entry level/spec class that people can jump in with (specing the chassis, body, motor and a few other things), then maybe an LMP2 class with a few less restrictions, and then move up to the wide open LMP1 class. Even if we just had the LMPC and then LMP1, do you think there could be performance markers for guys in the PC class to meet before going to the P1 class (like say track champion in PC moves to P1 next season or something)?
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:13 AM   #24
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I'm not sure I'd go with more than two different classes. I think a spec LMP2 or LM class and a fairly open LMP1 class would fit everyone in nicely. I like the names LMP1 and LMP2 the best just to keep it simple.

I didn't really consider damage to carpet as a reason for a minimum ride height since I've never run on carpet before.
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:58 PM   #25
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Any reason we are not talking about 235mm cars as LMP1? Can get bodies tires and chassis conversions, I would think that anyone setting up a LeMans series would worry more about motor battery combos then chassis configurations. I would think you want variety in this class. Like LMP1 any chassis, LM style body but 17.5 on 2S. LMPC with a spec tire, spec LM1 body 21.5 on 2S. GT1 would be WGT car with 17.5 on 1S and GT2 would be USGT car. Everyone should have something in their collection that would work. Run it like UF1 and you run mains where ever you qualify at
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:55 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howardcano View Post
We should spec a minimum ride height to save the carpet. I believe 4mm is the value normally used for 1/10 pan cars.

We should also consider an approved body list, like VTA has. Who makes the approval is an unknown at this point.

Here's a dead thread where most of this stuff has already been discussed, and it may provide some good ideas:

RCHSR: Radio Controlled Historic Sportscar Racing
I like the idea of an approved body list. The question now though is finding and approving bodies that are readily available on the market and can be readily acquired and/or reproduced
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:30 PM   #27
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Everyone keep in mind this class will be fueled by those buying into the LM-1 and wanting a class to run in. Their motivation is wanting to run a realistic looking car that is relatively easy to drive and not hard on the pocket book. When the interest reaches a certain level, the other chassis will come off the shelf to join them by matching the accepted dimensions. Body makers will want to get in on the action at this point if not sooner. The sooner, the better.

Dimensions to match are looking like 200mm front, 205mm rear and 275-280mm wheelbase and 4mm ride height.

Weight of 1250g. This may need to go up, but is only 10g over what a fully loaded LM-1 weighs.

So much to chew on!
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:57 PM   #28
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That is true liljohn. At this point, Let's go with the LM1/LMPC class and build up the LM1 numbers and as that becomes more established and then we can naturally work in a second more open LMP1 style class.
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:05 PM   #29
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The only company that has produced a realistic LMP car to date is Speedpassion, and their car is approximately 280mm in wheelbase. WGT chassis are much shorter at around 255 to 260 with bigger wheels/lower profile tires. Also, Speedpassion's LMP wheels will not fit directly on and 1/10 WGT or 235mm pan car. They will fit most F1 style chassis, so I would be inclined to base any future LMP class off of F1 chassis dimensions at 200mm width and 270 to 280mm wheelbase with F1 style wheel mounts front and rear, 2s batteries and ESC and your choice for motor.
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Delgado View Post
The only company that has produced a realistic LMP car to date is Speedpassion, and their car is approximately 280mm in wheelbase. WGT chassis are much shorter at around 255 to 260 with bigger wheels/lower profile tires. Also, Speedpassion's LMP wheels will not fit directly on and 1/10 WGT or 235mm pan car. They will fit most F1 style chassis, so I would be inclined to base any future LMP class off of F1 chassis dimensions at 200mm width and 270 to 280mm wheelbase with F1 style wheel mounts front and rear, 2s batteries and ESC and your choice for motor.
I agree on the dimensions, I just don't think the chassis should be restricted to F1-style. Also, the tire and rim dimensions should be controlled, but I don't think it's necessary to call out hex drives for the rims. Even F1 cars have two different hex drive sizes (14mm for Tamiya, 12mm for HPI, if I recall correctly), so it's not like there is already a standard.

In any case, it's pretty easy to stretch the wheelbase and fit F1-style hexes to a WGT chassis.
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