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Old 03-19-2014, 10:07 PM   #781
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Originally Posted by tleatham View Post
This is where my droop and suspension are at. Arm is fully lowered, and the suspension is fully extended. When it's all hooked up the droop screw is in contact with the chassis. Should I remove some droop and try to counter it with adjusting the ride height so it's not sitting on the chassis under no load, so it would only limit droop on say a turn or a rough patch of asphalt? I could thread out the eyelet but as you can see with this setup it has a mm or two of travel.
All the help is greatly appreciated and is very informative.

Also sorry for image rotation, I'll fix it if I can find out how haha.

Edit: A video of steering rack play. Is this a lot, and do I need to get done shins and try to clean it up?
youtu.be/yf-Gu7vKWHM
The droop screw should not make contact with the chassis when the car is sitting on it own weight. In addition the ride height should only be set via the springs but you probably already know that. The best thing to do at first is to back out the droop screws so that they are pretty much flush with the arm lower surface.
This is to take droop out of the equation. Set your ride height to 5mm all around by adjusting the spring collars. Run the car around a bit and see how it drives. If it's still pulling after adjusting the steering trim, you now know the problem is elsewhere. Another thing I have seen quit a bit is the inserts on the C hubs are installed incorrectly. It can be a little confusing at first because you need to create a mirror image of each side. You could have 0 degrees of castor on one side and -4 degrees on the other or worse... -4 deg and +4 deg respectively.
This can definitely cause problems and it's easy to do. Look at each C hub and check to see if they are both leaning rearward. If not... There's your sign!
The steering rack on my 6.2 is one of the most slop free I have ever used so if it's assembled correctly, it shouldn't be the problem.
Keep working at it... You will get there.

After looking at the video, the slop you have is quite normal.
I did notice that it looks like your front arms are not hanging downward at all. It looks to me like the droop screws are lifting the A arms too high as if you are using the droop screws to adjust your ride height. That won't work and is probably the source of your problem. Try the test outlined above and you will see the difference. Droop screws are only to limit the Down travel of the arms to control weight transfer. They should only come in contact with the chassis when the car is lifted a few mm above its normal ride height.
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Old 03-19-2014, 10:41 PM   #782
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There are some very useful vids on YouTube that describe setting of droop and other suspension adjustments. I'm always finding something new.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:51 PM   #783
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Awesome! As with real cars, I'm better at fixing problems than diagnosing them haha. I was hoping for some testing parameters. I was using the spring collars for ride height, but wasn't setting the droop correctly (I don't think). I'm used to using droop to change jumping characteristics on a car, something ill-advised with a tc... Haha.
Also good to know my steering rack appears normal. I've only ever seen one on road car before so I don't have a lot to compare to. And the inserts for the rear hubs are the number is on the outside of the hinge in the rear, inside the hinge towards the front. Not at home so I don't remember 100% the fronts, but think it's numbers on top towards the front, bottom towards the rear.

Reading back the posts I come off as a real noob... Haha I promise I'm not! My off-road cars are all dialed. This car is just another animal, but I'm excited to learn it all. Had to start somewhere for off-road, guess it's the same here.

Thanks all again,
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:47 AM   #784
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Alright guys I have tried about 12 different ways with these shocks to try and make them not have air in them after I build them. How do you guys build your shocks with whos o-rings, and how where the results?
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:21 AM   #785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDog View Post
There are some very useful vids on YouTube that describe setting of droop and other suspension adjustments. I'm always finding something new.
Agreed.
Droop setting seems to be a personal preferance issue.

I was recently shown a way to measure droop by AE team driver and fellow canadian Pete Tozer.

simple, accurate and fast.

Remove tires
ensure chassis is flat on setup board
Measure with digital calipers to top of axle..

Droop distance

4mm 24.5
5mm 25.5
6mm 26.5
7mm 27.5

This method removes the subjectivity of traditional under the arm methods.
This method is also transferable to every class of rc race cars

DJC
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:19 AM   #786
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Originally Posted by mtbboy View Post
Agreed.
Droop setting seems to be a personal preferance issue.

I was recently shown a way to measure droop by AE team driver and fellow canadian Pete Tozer.

simple, accurate and fast.

Remove tires
ensure chassis is flat on setup board
Measure with digital calipers to top of axle..

Droop distance

4mm 24.5
5mm 25.5
6mm 26.5
7mm 27.5

This method removes the subjectivity of traditional under the arm methods.
This method is also transferable to every class of rc race cars

DJC
I like this method as well.
. My only question would be how much actual up travel does each increment produce relative to a given amount of ride height?
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:46 AM   #787
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I like this method as well.
. My only question would be how much actual up travel does each increment produce relative to a given amount of ride height?
I'd have to agree with you there...
This is a great way to get accurate measurements but still leaves the question of translation with regards to ride height. Probably just need to subtract the ride height from the OA distance.
This is also assuming that the distance from the top of the axle to the bottom of the arm is the same from front to back and from car to car.
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Last edited by YoDog; 03-24-2014 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:19 PM   #788
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Alright guys I have tried about 12 different ways with these shocks to try and make them not have air in them after I build them. How do you guys build your shocks with whos o-rings, and how where the results?
Pretty standard process.
1) fill with fluid.
2) push piston near the top of the shock body and wait about 10 seconds for the air bubbles to rise to just under the piston.
3a) Slowly pull the piston downward while rotating the shaft.
3b) Fill the remaining space with oil.
4) Set aside to allow bubbles to rise.
5) push the piston up half way and place the bladder on top of the shock body.
6) While pushing the piston up to about 75% of the total stroke (oil will spill out of course), use the eraser end of a pencil in the center of the bladder to press it flush to the top of the shock body while holding the piston at 75%.
Note: this will create a bit of vacuum under the bladder, keeping it somewhat sealed.
7) Place the top cap on and carefully tighten, trying not to rock the eyelet.

Hopefully you are not mistaking the noise you hear as being bubbles rather than the machine marks inside the shock bore. (something AE needs to address) This makes them appear "Cheap" IMO.
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:28 PM   #789
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Good point gentlemen.

The "language" of droop would need to change.

We would no longer refer to the above arm numbers for our settings, but rather above chassis bottom for our distance.

This eliminates confusion between manufacturer's variables.
Ride height and arm thickness do not play into the calculation.

DJC
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:44 PM   #790
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That's a very good form of measurement. Remember though that the camber needs to be set already or the angle of the axle could make it measure out funny. I also prefer to measure with the shock off. If the shock isn't set right it could be causing pressure on the a-arm and skewing the numbers.
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Old 03-24-2014, 01:52 PM   #791
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That's a very good form of measurement. Remember though that the camber needs to be set already or the angle of the axle could make it measure out funny. I also prefer to measure with the shock off. If the shock isn't set right it could be causing pressure on the a-arm and skewing the numbers.
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:33 PM   #792
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That's a very good form of measurement. Remember though that the camber needs to be set already or the angle of the axle could make it measure out funny. I also prefer to measure with the shock off. If the shock isn't set right it could be causing pressure on the a-arm and skewing the numbers.
Agreed on the camber.

Shocks on or off.

Were one to set droop with the shocks off to avoid a different setting caused by the shocks, what then happens when the shocks are reinstalled?

I definately prefer to set droop WITH shocks installed. This method gives me my raceready droop setting as the car is intended to be run.
if I set droop without shocks and installing the shocks changes that setting, then whats the advantage?

DJC
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:35 PM   #793
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Originally Posted by mtbboy View Post
Agreed on the camber.

Shocks on or off.

Were one to set droop with the shocks off to avoid a different setting caused by the shocks, what then happens when the shocks are reinstalled?

I definately prefer to set droop WITH shocks installed. This method gives me my raceready droop setting as the car is intended to be run.
if I set droop without shocks and installing the shocks changes that setting, then whats the advantage?

DJC
I usually do it with shocks off, and recheck with shocks on. Lets me know if I need to work on shock lengths or finding bind in the car.
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:58 PM   #794
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I set the droop even with the shocks off and set the anit-roll bar at this time. Then final droop settings when the shocks are on.
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:01 PM   #795
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I like this method as well.
. My only question would be how much actual up travel does each increment produce relative to a given amount of ride height?
I agree, that the measurement method seems simple and accurate.

To calculate the up travel you need to know not only the ride height, but also the wheel diameter. With mounted wheels the point of measurement (top of axle) would be
wheeldiameter / 2 + axlediameter / 2 above ground.

I'll call that "axleheight". The measured droop as described in post 785 will be called "new droop" here.

So the calculated up travel would be axleheight - ride height - new droop.

The only problem with that calculation is, that it does not take into account that the tire will be flatter when the car is just sitting there (for example when checking ride height) than while driving. On the other hand this will affect ride height just the same.

So it should probably be better to also measure the "axleheight" with a caliper on top of the axle (only with mounted wheels) than to use some theoretical values given by the tire manufacturer. As long as you don't have extensive camber settings this should be accurate enough.

Also, this is a very good point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hamann View Post
I usually do it with shocks off, and recheck with shocks on. Lets me know if I need to work on shock lengths or finding bind in the car.
When your shock length limits the amount of uptravel and not your droop screw, that's very probably not what you want and you should check both settings.

Christian
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