R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-10-2016, 02:55 PM   #2416
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,456
Send a message via ICQ to MattW
Default

Nope, the older arm is 0.5mm longer. I've just checked them again!
MattW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 12:26 PM   #2417
jpx
Tech Adept
 
jpx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattW View Post
Nope, the older arm is 0.5mm longer. I've just checked them again!
You're right - TC5 is longer!
I measured again - from outside to outside of pins:
TC6.2 = 55.25 mm
TC5 = 55.65 mm

TC6.2:
Attached Thumbnails
Team Associated TC6.2 Touring Car-image.jpg  
__________________
AE TC7 / 17.5T blinky GT
WRC f-one '016 / 21.5T F1
jpx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 12:28 PM   #2418
jpx
Tech Adept
 
jpx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 177
Default

TC5:
Attached Thumbnails
Team Associated TC6.2 Touring Car-image.jpg  
__________________
AE TC7 / 17.5T blinky GT
WRC f-one '016 / 21.5T F1
jpx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 02:56 PM   #2419
Tech Elite
 
Brian McGreevy's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,081
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Brian McGreevy Send a message via Yahoo to Brian McGreevy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpx View Post
TC5:
Would you mind measuring pin-to-pin with the other side of the calipers please? That's the only thing that really matters for geometry. Thanks!
__________________
USVTA Member #211

Support Formula SAE - get kids into engineering!
http://motorsports.illinois.edu/
Brian McGreevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 06:53 PM   #2420
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 743
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

OK, I'm in the middle of the TC4/TC5 arm mod and I have some questions. I am using TC5 front arms with the TC5 C-hub. I also have DCV's and they would not clear the TC5 C-hub. I took a dremel to bevel out some material to make it clear. Is this normal?

Also, I went and bought a number 40 drill to open up the outer pin holes on the rear TC4 arms and Yokomo Hubs. That should be pretty close as the pin is .097" as the number 40 is .098". I also got a number 32 bit (.116") for the inner pin holes as pin measures .117". I'm going to set up the parts on a good drill press to make sure I get the holes good and square (even with original holes).

As far as the new holes I have to drill in the TC4 arms, I will put in a .098" hole on the front of the TC4 arm for the sway bar link. I will also drill a new hole for the droop screw, but here's my main question. Should I use the same droop screws from the TC6.2 rear arms? Seems really big for the small area I have to drill the hole. Or should I go with a smaller set screw? And if so, what size should I get. Not sure I have any here. So the second question, where is the best place to buy some smaller set screws that are pretty long?

Thanks,
Glenn
glennhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 07:38 PM   #2421
The Evicerator
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 4,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennhl View Post
OK, I'm in the middle of the TC4/TC5 arm mod and I have some questions. I am using TC5 front arms with the TC5 C-hub. I also have DCV's and they would not clear the TC5 C-hub. I took a dremel to bevel out some material to make it clear. Is this normal?

Also, I went and bought a number 40 drill to open up the outer pin holes on the rear TC4 arms and Yokomo Hubs. That should be pretty close as the pin is .097" as the number 40 is .098". I also got a number 32 bit (.116") for the inner pin holes as pin measures .117". I'm going to set up the parts on a good drill press to make sure I get the holes good and square (even with original holes).

As far as the new holes I have to drill in the TC4 arms, I will put in a .098" hole on the front of the TC4 arm for the sway bar link. I will also drill a new hole for the droop screw, but here's my main question. Should I use the same droop screws from the TC6.2 rear arms? Seems really big for the small area I have to drill the hole. Or should I go with a smaller set screw? And if so, what size should I get. Not sure I have any here. So the second question, where is the best place to buy some smaller set screws that are pretty long?

Thanks,
Glenn

Hi Glenn,

Regarding the TC5 castor block, yes it is completely normal to have to remove material from them to allow the DCJ its full range of motion... Generally opening up that hole to 10 mm and beveling the inside edges does the trick.

Regarding the droop screw hole for the rear arms, we wound up using long 3 mm grub screws for droop adjustment to conserve arm arm material in the TC4 arms.

I want to say 3x8 mm work? Any brand that has them should work.
__________________
Steve Weiss
TEAM ASSOCIATED -- REEDY -- SANWA -- PROTOFORM -- P1 BRAND -- TUNING HAUS -- TEAM KINWALD -- TEAM STEVE INTERNATIONAL

Last edited by Steve Weiss; 01-11-2016 at 08:02 PM. Reason: incorrect contraction
Steve Weiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2016, 07:48 PM   #2422
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 743
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Weiss View Post
Hi Glenn,

Regarding the TC5 castor block, yes it is completely normal to have to remove material from them to allow the DCJ it's full range of motion... Generally opening up that hole to 10 mm and beveling the inside edges does the trick.

Regarding the droop screw hole for the rear arms, we wound up using long 3 mm grub screws for droop adjustment to conserve arm arm material in the TC4 arms.

I want to say 3x8 mm work? Any brand that has them should work.
Perfect. Thanks.

EDIT: One more question... What dots do I run for the suspension. I know in the rear, with the Yokomo hub, I should run 3 dots to the outside. What about the front, 3 dots to the inside on both the front and rear mounts on the front arms?

Thanks,
Glenn

Last edited by glennhl; 01-12-2016 at 08:25 AM.
glennhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 12:52 PM   #2423
jpx
Tech Adept
 
jpx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 177
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McGreevy View Post
Would you mind measuring pin-to-pin with the other side of the calipers please? That's the only thing that really matters for geometry. Thanks!
C'mon!
Measure the diameter of both pins and substract 1/2 of each from the measure values I wrote and you get the value for centre-to-centre!

As the pins are the same for TC5 and TC6.2 the values I wrote are still enough to compare.
__________________
AE TC7 / 17.5T blinky GT
WRC f-one '016 / 21.5T F1
jpx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 07:45 PM   #2424
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 743
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

OK, just finished converting one of two TC6.2's I have. I'm going to wait to do the second until I see if I like the first. Little bit of a pain, but very doable by an average person. Here are some notes....

1) If you have DCV's, you'll have to dremel out the inside of the 4 degree hard TC5 C-Hub (ASC31557). Otherwise, the front mod is pretty simple. The TC5 Hard Front Arm (ASC31203) drops right in. I left the stock sway bars from the TC6.2 in place. I used a 2mm spacer in the front of the arm (on the inside hinge pin) and 1 mm behind the arm.

2) The rear was a little harder. One thing I noticed that nobody mentioned was the outside pin (hub to a-arm) is too long. I ended up buying TC4 hinge pins (ASC3878). They are slightly smaller in diameter and are the correct length. So I didn't have to drill out the TC4 rear arm (ASC31009) for the hub pin, but I still had to drill the Yokomo Hub to 3/32". I also had to buy some 2-56 x 1/8" Button Head screws (ASC9645) for the hub pin hold down. The ones for the TC6.2 are too large. I also drilled out the hinge pin holes for the long hinge pin at the chassis plate. I used a number 31 drill bit (.120"), just make one pass or the hole will be too large.

3. The bearings and crush washer fit perfectly into the Yokomo BD7 Hub. By the way, there are two Yokomo Hubs, the YOKBD-415R and then a lightweight one, YOKBD-415RG. The RG is only .1 grams lighter, but seems to be a stronger plastic, so I went with those.

4. The rear sway bars are a little more hassle. First I got the Yokomo sway bar rod ends (YOKZC-207S) and the short Yokomo drop links/turn buckles (YOKSD-TB16). Second, you have to drill a new .098" hole in the front of the TC4 arm (ASC31009) for a new ball joint (YOKZC-206SHS). Don't go too deep or you will drill through the inside gusset, no need for that. The new ball joint is to hook the sway bar up to the arm. The last thing you will notice, if you keep with the TC6.2 sway bar system, you'll need to go out and get some music wire and cut some 2.3" long sway bars, the stock bars are not long enough to reach the new hook up location. I got out my spring book and calculated the spring rate of the stock .035" wire. Since you have to go to a longer wire to hook everything up, if you stick with .035" the spring rate will be too low. I ended up using .047" with 2" of active length and it's the same as the .035" wire that had 1.4" of active length. However, since the new hook up location is a little further away from the inside hinge pin, the effective spring rate is a little more than before. I may try .039" wire on the rear bar just to see how it works.

5. You also have to drill a new hole into the TC4 rear arms for the droop screws. In order to not make the arm too weak, I went with a smaller 3mm x 8mm grub screw for the droop screw. The new hole is .098" in diameter for the 3mm screw.

6. The rear arm requires 5mm spacers in front of the arm, I used two 2.5mm spacers from Yeah Racing, part no. YA-0396LB. Then you use 10mm of spacers in the rear, I used three 3mm spacers along with one 1mm spacer. But four 2.5 mm spacers would have worked. You can also buy an assortment of blue spacers from Yeah Racing, YA-0390LB.

7. For the rear, I used 3 dots to the outside for the rear mounts and 2 dots to the outside for the front of the rear arm mounts. The reason is I wanted 3 degrees of toe in and with 3 dots front and rear, I was only getting 2.5 degrees. On the front, I stuck with the stock single dots front and rear. I may go back and go with 2 dots to the inside depending on Steve and Randy's recommendation.

That's it, hope that helps people.

Last edited by glennhl; 01-17-2016 at 06:10 PM.
glennhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2016, 08:13 PM   #2425
The Evicerator
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 4,142
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennhl View Post
Perfect. Thanks.

EDIT: One more question... What dots do I run for the suspension. I know in the rear, with the Yokomo hub, I should run 3 dots to the outside. What about the front, 3 dots to the inside on both the front and rear mounts on the front arms?

Thanks,
Glenn
Glenn,

Sorry I didn't get to this until now.

Most of the time we run 3 in or 2 in on the front. We sometimes play with a little arm sweep there as well.

We have started experimenting with wider front pivots here and there, but you won't go wrong with the 2 or 3 in setup
__________________
Steve Weiss
TEAM ASSOCIATED -- REEDY -- SANWA -- PROTOFORM -- P1 BRAND -- TUNING HAUS -- TEAM KINWALD -- TEAM STEVE INTERNATIONAL
Steve Weiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2016, 02:02 PM   #2426
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 743
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Weiss View Post
Glenn,

Sorry I didn't get to this until now.

Most of the time we run 3 in or 2 in on the front. We sometimes play with a little arm sweep there as well.

We have started experimenting with wider front pivots here and there, but you won't go wrong with the 2 or 3 in setup
Thanks, you guys are the best. I'll try 2 in and see if I like it. As far as the rear arms, I was running three out on the rear mount and two out on the front mount to get a little more toe in. But it really swung the arm forward, so I decided to move it back to reduce the dog bone angle. I went with 6mm of spacers in front of the arm and 9mm behind the arm. I think you guys were recommending 5mm in front of the arm and 10mm behind.

It will be interesting to see if I like the set up. I'm an old guy, so normally I like for the rear end to be planted. Hopefully I'll like this setup.

Thanks,
Glenn
glennhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 03:46 PM   #2427
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 743
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wtcc View Post



This is a photo from the TC5/TC4 arm conversion done by WTCC posted earlier in this thread. I copied it pretty closely, however, Sean Cochran just posted in another thread that you must plug and redrill shock holes on the TC5 front arms. Looking at the photos, it looks like WTCC did not do this, he used the stock inside shock mounting hole on the TC5 stock arm. That's what I did. Will I have an issue with this?
glennhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 04:28 PM   #2428
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 743
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

OK, I see what Sean is talking about now. WTCC used the inside shock mount hole as did I. I think our shocks are standing up a little more than they did with the TC6.2 arms on the middle hole. I'm guessing Sean plugged the two stock shock mount holes on the TC5 arm and drilled a new one in between the 2 old holes. I think I could pull this off, if it's needed. Here's a photo of Rick Howart's TC6.2 with the TC5 front arms. Note, you cannot see the outside hole like you can on WTCC's photo above.



So with the shock more upright, I would think I'll have less steering and to tell you the truth, that will be fine with me. I'll find out tomorrow, as I run my modified TC6.2 for the first time.

Just to confirm my suspicion, I grabbed a TC6.2 and TC5 front arms. Looking at the TC6.2 front arm next to the TC5 front arm, the TC5 has only 2 shock mounting holes and the two holes are basically the same as the TC6.2 inside and outside holes. So there is no middle hole and I'm guessing that's the mod Sean does is to plug the two holes and just use a new hole in the middle.
glennhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 05:32 PM   #2429
AE-Reedy
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 778
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Yes you want to duplicate the 6.2 middle hole in the TC5 arm. You only have to fill one hole to accomplish this, the inner. Using the outer on the TC5 is much too stiff, the inside hole will be a little softer than the optimum but might be able to tune around. Just depends where you're running and how much grip there is.
Sean Cochran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2016, 06:03 PM   #2430
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 743
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Cochran View Post
Yes you want to duplicate the 6.2 middle hole in the TC5 arm. You only have to fill one hole to accomplish this, the inner. Using the outer on the TC5 is much too stiff, the inside hole will be a little softer than the optimum but might be able to tune around. Just depends where you're running and how much grip there is.
Sean, thanks again, you've been very helpful. I have a few questions.

First, I always thought when you lay down a shock it's effect it to make the spring softer, but you state that it would make it stiffer. I'm confused, I thought the straighter the shock up and down the stiffer it is. If your spring say yields a force of X pounds when compressed, if the shock is laid down say at a 45 degree angle, then the affect on the suspension piece is only .707X (1 over the square root of 2). If the shock is straight up and down, then the affect on the suspension piece is 1X (full amount).

Also, how do you plug the hole? Do you drill it out and then glue a piece of plastic rod in? Could you tell us where to get the plastic rod and what size to get? Also, what kind of glue? Sorry for all the questions.

Last, I think I'll try the inside hole and see how I like it. I'll report back. My biggest fear with this mod was I would get the car to drive like a PRO likes it, plenty of steering. And since I'm a rank amatuer, I'm not sure I'll like it. By the way, I started in this sport back in 1982 in 1/12 scale. I was actually a local Arizona Associated driver, which meant Midge Hustings would give us parts for half price! The only reason I made the grade was most of the quick guys were running Delta cars back then when I was running a 12i. Those were the days! Heck, I still remember a regional race we had back in 1986 where some young guy named Rick Howart won the A main at our local track (SRS in Tempe, AZ).
glennhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:41 AM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net