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Old 03-01-2017, 07:46 AM   #631
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The steering turnbuckles are just Spec-R aluminum turnbuckles with TC6 ballcups.

https://www.tqrcracing.com/shop/prod....asp?p_id=4617

Servo mount is already available here- https://www.shapeways.com/product/X7...ty-servo-mount

As for the arms, they're something I've been playing with to get rid of some of the flex with the stock arms. When I'm happy with them I'll put them on Shapeways. The front bulkhead is a multi-piece unit that allows you to adjust reactive caster as well as roll center by raising and lowering the upper half with shims. Still playing around with both.

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Old 03-02-2017, 10:43 PM   #632
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Anyone have any suspension dynamics to explain this? I would think the more flat the shock is the softer it would be. So by more on power traction i assume you mean rear traction? If so can we agree this is due to more weight transfer on acceleration? I would assume this effect would diminish after the weight was fully transferred. Anyone care to chime in?

Dave
Anyone?


Also, any suggestions to get both on power and off power steering? It seems low speed steering is great and responsive at a constant speed but turn in is horrible as well as turning on a high speed sweeper. I've at ~4.2mm front 4.6mm rear, .45 springs front, stock shock/spring/oil with the shock at the second hole from the front (Helped steering some) and front stock hole in the back. .45 springs just touching at ride height (Tried 1 turn in and one out w/o any real change in the push) Droop is about 1.8mm measured at the front of the link ball mount. Currently at 2deg negative camber and 2 degrees toe out. increased from 1.5 on each and it helped slightly. Sidewall is glued up to about 1 mm from the seam. Tires are TCS 571/572, full compound rear and inside 1/2 front. Any more and it traction rolls. Any suggestions would be helpful as I'm really having to fight to get it to rotate. Using brake does help it rotate but isn't a consistent way to do it. I also played w/ drag brake but the Justock (even at 40) didn't seem to provide much brake. This is a 25.5 class for us if that matters.

Thanks much,

Dave
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:09 AM   #633
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Anyone?


Also, any suggestions to get both on power and off power steering? It seems low speed steering is great and responsive at a constant speed but turn in is horrible as well as turning on a high speed sweeper. I've at ~4.2mm front 4.6mm rear, .45 springs front, stock shock/spring/oil with the shock at the second hole from the front (Helped steering some) and front stock hole in the back. .45 springs just touching at ride height (Tried 1 turn in and one out w/o any real change in the push) Droop is about 1.8mm measured at the front of the link ball mount. Currently at 2deg negative camber and 2 degrees toe out. increased from 1.5 on each and it helped slightly. Sidewall is glued up to about 1 mm from the seam. Tires are TCS 571/572, full compound rear and inside 1/2 front. Any more and it traction rolls. Any suggestions would be helpful as I'm really having to fight to get it to rotate. Using brake does help it rotate but isn't a consistent way to do it. I also played w/ drag brake but the Justock (even at 40) didn't seem to provide much brake. This is a 25.5 class for us if that matters.

Thanks much,

Dave
How much droop are you running on the front?
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:16 AM   #634
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I run my rear pod just about flat. Also where is your battery?
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:19 AM   #635
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How much droop are you running on the front?
My ride height is a 4.2mm, how else can I set droop? By removing those white spacers? If so I have the stock spacers in there.

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Old 03-03-2017, 11:30 AM   #636
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Unscrew the kingpins to adjust droop.
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Old 03-03-2017, 11:58 AM   #637
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You can only unscrew them so much before they hit the ID of the rim. I'm right at that point now. That dictates ride height correct? RH and Droop in front go hand in hand unless you mess w/ those spacers on the kingpin unless I'm looking at this wrong?
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Old 03-03-2017, 12:43 PM   #638
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Originally Posted by TT_Vert View Post
Anyone?


Also, any suggestions to get both on power and off power steering? It seems low speed steering is great and responsive at a constant speed but turn in is horrible as well as turning on a high speed sweeper. I've at ~4.2mm front 4.6mm rear, .45 springs front, stock shock/spring/oil with the shock at the second hole from the front (Helped steering some) and front stock hole in the back. .45 springs just touching at ride height (Tried 1 turn in and one out w/o any real change in the push) Droop is about 1.8mm measured at the front of the link ball mount. Currently at 2deg negative camber and 2 degrees toe out. increased from 1.5 on each and it helped slightly. Sidewall is glued up to about 1 mm from the seam. Tires are TCS 571/572, full compound rear and inside 1/2 front. Any more and it traction rolls. Any suggestions would be helpful as I'm really having to fight to get it to rotate. Using brake does help it rotate but isn't a consistent way to do it. I also played w/ drag brake but the Justock (even at 40) didn't seem to provide much brake. This is a 25.5 class for us if that matters.

Thanks much,

Dave
Since I'm assuming you're running at Windy City, I'll tell you what has worked for me there.

First off to kill some of the traction roll so you can dope more front tire, back off the side springs 1/2 to 1 full turn. It won't change steering much as you've noticed, but it will let the car roll in the suspension more without lifting tires.

Also, take the glue all the way up to the seam. You'll be able to use more dope on the front. Use several coats to make it thick.

To get more turn in, I like to increase the center shock length to get more rear droop. If you are at Windy City, you must also run a decent amount of droop just because there are some bumps that will destabilize the car as well. You have a decent amount already, but it's something to try. This is also a feel thing, and some people might not like the way this feels. I also run a lot of toe out (like 3*) so the car feels pretty stable. More toe = more stable. I know it sounds crazy, but it has been working.

As far as front droop, I haven't changed much. Ride height I set using the spacers under the suspension mount as much as possible so the droop settings don't interact with ride height too much. I usually use front droop to determine how much the car lets weight transfer back on power. It also affects how much the car rolls mid corner too, but I'm not a huge expert on all the effects of front droop, so hopefully someone will chime in who knows.

You can also go to a Tamiya silver front spring or like an Associated .014". They are softer, and again, will let the car roll in the suspensions limits. It should also aid steering.

The center shock spring will help with on power steering, if you go stiffer. However, one thing to be careful of is that too stiff of a spring can make it easier to roast the front tires off the car. One piece of advice I have heard is go stiffer until it slows down in the chicanes.

Another thing that I have been trying, and may make me look goofy, is running like 3* of camber. This seems to be something that works together with some of the other things I'm doing, since I have had too much camber make a car pole vault off the track. There may be a point where you have enough tire off the ground with the camber and the caster effect that it actually reduces traction. Either way, the increased camber did get me the steering I wanted.

On top of everything else, you can also try narrowing the rear end if you want the car to rotate mid corner.

I also run my battery with enough lead behind it to make weight. The lead is tight to the rear bulkhead. The battery moves forward if the car starts to traction roll.
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Old 03-03-2017, 11:51 PM   #639
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I had a long reply to this but it somehow disappeared. Yes I'm at WCRC. I had thought about gluing a bit higher and trying to add more compound but ended up breaking the car before I got to that point. The traction rolls are violent, unpredictable and very damaging to parts on these cars. It's certainly getting expensive.

I haven't noticed any bumpiness causing much as of yet. I do notice a bit of twitchiness in the straights but it is easily controllable. I did look into a softer front spring but it seemed the thinnest spring was a .45mm. I was unaware that the dimensions were the same on other cars, I'll definitely get some lighter springs to play with. Are these the AE springs you guys are using?

I'm curious what your ride height is at? I've noticed that a few small spots I've got what appears the chassis is contacting the track. I don't think that's what is causing this issue as that'd probably occur after the weight is transferred and cause a snap over or understeer which I'd notice.

I've yet to really look at the front tire wear to see if the tires are rolling past center as far as contact patch goes on turns at 2 deg. If not I could attempt to increase camber.

I wasn't even aware you could narrow this thing but that may be a last ditch effort I hopefully don't have to explore.

As far as on power steering I'll probably circle around to that after i get the turn in issue resolved. I assume on these cars stiffening the shock reduces weight transfer while on power to keep more weight over the front tires?

What is your technique and droop setting for the rear? I've been measuring at the axis of the rear link screw just by lifting at the shock itself to measure the difference in ride height vs. fully raised height.

Thanks much

Dave
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Old 03-04-2017, 12:13 AM   #640
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I run my rear pod just about flat. Also where is your battery?
Sorry i missed this. It is as far forward in the rear transverse location. Almost considering moving it up front.

Dave
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Old 03-04-2017, 07:39 AM   #641
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Originally Posted by TT_Vert View Post
I had a long reply to this but it somehow disappeared. Yes I'm at WCRC. I had thought about gluing a bit higher and trying to add more compound but ended up breaking the car before I got to that point. The traction rolls are violent, unpredictable and very damaging to parts on these cars. It's certainly getting expensive.

I have even gone just over the edge of the seam at times with glue.


I haven't noticed any bumpiness causing much as of yet. I do notice a bit of twitchiness in the straights but it is easily controllable.

Those are the bumps. You pretty much have the choice of more droop or kill the steering response.

I did look into a softer front spring but it seemed the thinnest spring was a .45mm. I was unaware that the dimensions were the same on other cars, I'll definitely get some lighter springs to play with. Are these the AE springs you guys are using?

I use the Tamiya springs, which are close to the same length as CRC, but you'll still need like a .5 or 1mm shim. Ae is shorter. I would recommend the Tamiya springs over the AE just based on dimensions.


I'm curious what your ride height is at? I've noticed that a few small spots I've got what appears the chassis is contacting the track. I don't think that's what is causing this issue as that'd probably occur after the weight is transferred and cause a snap over or understeer which I'd notice.

4 front 4.5mm rear. The cars are going to pick up track gook, some is ok. Most of the time if the front wing is dragging that will make the car push. Oversteer or other weirdness may be body or wiring related. Just check to make sure the wires are 100% free on the chassis, and when the body is on as well. Then make sure the body is not interfering at the limits of suspension. This does not sound like your problem though.


I've yet to really look at the front tire wear to see if the tires are rolling past center as far as contact patch goes on turns at 2 deg. If not I could attempt to increase camber.

I don't know how much you'll see the wear. If you want to try it, just try it, and if it is terrible, change it back.


I wasn't even aware you could narrow this thing but that may be a last ditch effort I hopefully don't have to explore.

The car comes with fairly thick spacers on the axle. Any pan car shims for 1/4" axles will work. The car is not maxed out out of the box if i remember, it may be like 187mm. TOP also sells some nice red 1/4" shims in .5, 1, and 2mm. You may want to get rid of the big spacer and get some smaller ones like the TOP parts. You DO need some shims, or the axle parts will rub the pod

As far as on power steering I'll probably circle around to that after i get the turn in issue resolved. I assume on these cars stiffening the shock reduces weight transfer while on power to keep more weight over the front tires?

Pretty much.


What is your technique and droop setting for the rear? I've been measuring at the axis of the rear link screw just by lifting at the shock itself to measure the difference in ride height vs. fully raised height.

I think you are doing the same thing i do. Raise the pod from ride height, measure under the back of the main chassis from the side. The gauge goes under the chassis at the extreme rear of the chassis plate, by the rear of the link, in line with the football pivot laterally.

Thanks much

Dave
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Old 03-04-2017, 07:59 PM   #642
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Thanks Rob I'll keep these in mind. I've got no binding or clearance issues due to the body/wiring. With the shorter spring up front I assume that is adding droop correct? Are you compensating for that or just sticking w/ that added droop?
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Old 03-05-2017, 07:50 PM   #643
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Thanks Rob I'll keep these in mind. I've got no binding or clearance issues due to the body/wiring. With the shorter spring up front I assume that is adding droop correct? Are you compensating for that or just sticking w/ that added droop?
Shorter spring will add droop, but also drop the ride height. You may need a shim like .5mm or 1mm to get it back to where the stock spring is. Adding the shim will also correct the droop issue.
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Old 03-05-2017, 11:00 PM   #644
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I'm currently at a 2mm spacer w/ the stock .45mm springs to get to 4mm w/ the pin nearly touching the wheel. I'd be hesitant to go much more especially since even at 2mm of spacing the locating pieces of the arm mount are no longer in the chassis to positively locate the front suspension. If the spring is shorter I'd assume you'd have over 2mm of spacers up there, notice any ill effects?

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Old 03-06-2017, 10:44 AM   #645
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Ok, this is what i have:
Tamiya silver spring, .5mm spacer under spring on kingpin

No spacer under suspension mount. Sometimes i may run a thin spacer with the stock springs.

Measurement from top knuckle to bottom of kingpin is like 31.3 mm if i remember right
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