1LikesXray T4'14
06-23-2014, 08:42 AM
#1936
So, why ride height and not tweak? Under acceleration or braking, I want to make sure that both wheels decrease an equal amount of pressure on the racing surface. Otherwise, you'll be pulling to one side under hard throttle or hard braking. 0.5mm of ride height difference doesn't affect that car too much in those situations, I don't think. I'm actually struggling to think when it would. Thoughts?
06-23-2014, 08:42 AM
#1937
Sorex 36's, dialed. I run a Flow with a 4.5 boosted. Our track is really abrasive. 2 weekends out of them, maybe 3.
06-23-2014, 08:58 AM
#1938
Locally we've been using the Team Powers 34s and Solaris sp35-ex with great success. The former being slightly off pace but lasting longer than the latter. I believe Solaris also has an sc35 variant which is excellent as well.
06-23-2014, 09:01 AM
#1939
We have some of the Team Powers coming to test out. Will report back after testing.
06-23-2014, 11:09 AM
#1940
Thanks I appreciate the fast response I'll try the sorex tyres
06-23-2014, 12:40 PM
#1941
Tech Regular
Is that normal? Playing around with extra wight it seems to me that the chassis is heavier in the corners opposite of the ones that need the extra preload. Assuming I'm explaining myself clearly, anyone have comments/suggestions? I feel like I may be screwing up some basics here.
I have the issue that when you feel at them (shocks removed) it feel OK, but
when I removed the C hubs and the rear hubs my left rear arm movement was not free at all.
Thus take a good look at it.
Hope this helps
06-23-2014, 04:08 PM
#1942
@metalnut: After the Enduro, I had a heck of a time getting the car to tweak out flat. I checked everything and it was still tweaked.
What I eventually found was that - with a car as flexy as the T4 - just because the car will lay flat on droop blocks doesn't mean it doesn't have a tweak in the chassis. When I swapped chassis plates, I just unscrewed the bulkheads leaving the bearing caps and shock towers attached, and carried over a tweak from the enduro. When I loosened everything - bulkheads, towers, bearing caps, suspension mounts, top deck, motor mount - and re-tightened things in kit instruction order, it was much, much better.
That being said, springs can also be of uneven length/rate. I have 3 pairs of RSD springs sitting in my pit box that I need to throw away, because they're visibly different in length, and when squeezing in your fingers are quite clearly uneven in rate. When your springs are mismatched like that, it's extremely difficult to get the car de-tweaked.
Also, have you made sure your swaybars aren't tweaked?
-Mike
What I eventually found was that - with a car as flexy as the T4 - just because the car will lay flat on droop blocks doesn't mean it doesn't have a tweak in the chassis. When I swapped chassis plates, I just unscrewed the bulkheads leaving the bearing caps and shock towers attached, and carried over a tweak from the enduro. When I loosened everything - bulkheads, towers, bearing caps, suspension mounts, top deck, motor mount - and re-tightened things in kit instruction order, it was much, much better.
That being said, springs can also be of uneven length/rate. I have 3 pairs of RSD springs sitting in my pit box that I need to throw away, because they're visibly different in length, and when squeezing in your fingers are quite clearly uneven in rate. When your springs are mismatched like that, it's extremely difficult to get the car de-tweaked.
Also, have you made sure your swaybars aren't tweaked?
-Mike
06-23-2014, 06:29 PM
#1943
^^^ All of our springs are matched PER SET for length and rate, but not totally equal in length, (they can vary +- 0.7mm). If you have 3 pairs, all you have to do is match them by height and you will have your springs matched once again.
It is difficult to have all springs completely equal in length, this is why we sort and match every individual set before they go out. If you mix them up, they might not be the same length across the board, but the rate on EVERY spring has to be within +- 0.25 lb/in for us to use them. Otherwise, we do not sell them.
In any way, testing springs with your hands is not accurate at all, you should know this. Many times something may feel different/softer/harder and it turns out to be the same/harder/softer. If your springs are rated with the same color, I can guarantee you that they are +- 0.25 lb/in of each other. I test all the springs myself before they leave the facility. The only case where they might be off by a bit more is if you bought them a long time apart as they can be from a different batch. Then the variance can be about +-0.4 lb/in. This difference however would be pretty much undetectable to the human hand.
If you do think you can feel the difference by hand then the possibility exists that you received a mis-labeled spring (which has happened before, but only maybe 10 times since we started making springs), or you are confusing 2 similar color-coded springs as the same rate.
It is difficult to have all springs completely equal in length, this is why we sort and match every individual set before they go out. If you mix them up, they might not be the same length across the board, but the rate on EVERY spring has to be within +- 0.25 lb/in for us to use them. Otherwise, we do not sell them.
In any way, testing springs with your hands is not accurate at all, you should know this. Many times something may feel different/softer/harder and it turns out to be the same/harder/softer. If your springs are rated with the same color, I can guarantee you that they are +- 0.25 lb/in of each other. I test all the springs myself before they leave the facility. The only case where they might be off by a bit more is if you bought them a long time apart as they can be from a different batch. Then the variance can be about +-0.4 lb/in. This difference however would be pretty much undetectable to the human hand.
If you do think you can feel the difference by hand then the possibility exists that you received a mis-labeled spring (which has happened before, but only maybe 10 times since we started making springs), or you are confusing 2 similar color-coded springs as the same rate.
06-23-2014, 07:28 PM
#1944
@Cristian: 3 pairs of different rates. So there's no way they're mixed up. Mislabeled is possible, crash damage is possible (although I don't remember crashing badly enough), squeezing to coil bind too many times, on outside edges of QC tolerance...
I didn't mean to bash on the quality of your springs; I know you have many satisfied customers. But for whatever reason, the two pairs I used, from memory: pink is perhaps .5 different in length and feel the same in rate (not too bad), but the orange are about 1.5mm different in length, and feel like the difference between perhaps an HPI Pink and Silver in hand, i.e. a clear difference between two springs that should feel the same.
-Mike
I didn't mean to bash on the quality of your springs; I know you have many satisfied customers. But for whatever reason, the two pairs I used, from memory: pink is perhaps .5 different in length and feel the same in rate (not too bad), but the orange are about 1.5mm different in length, and feel like the difference between perhaps an HPI Pink and Silver in hand, i.e. a clear difference between two springs that should feel the same.
-Mike
06-23-2014, 08:16 PM
#1945
Thanks for the tips, Mike. I was actually thinking about loosening everything and tightening it back up per the manual. So I'll do that. I also just rebuilt the shocks to make sure nothing binds and that all are of equal length.
I have some new sway bars coming (softer for asphalt) so I'll compare them to the ones I have now. What I'm running now may very well be bent.
Overall it's not horrible, I can detweak the car fine still, it's just a lot more difference in preload than I'd expect. I'm also going to play with corner weights as I have about 32 grams to distribute
As for the RSD springs, I have no complaints. The progressive asphalt set handles really nicely for me, they fit right also. I can't tell the difference between silver and gold very well, but that's just my crappy eyes. So all is well
I have some new sway bars coming (softer for asphalt) so I'll compare them to the ones I have now. What I'm running now may very well be bent.
Overall it's not horrible, I can detweak the car fine still, it's just a lot more difference in preload than I'd expect. I'm also going to play with corner weights as I have about 32 grams to distribute
As for the RSD springs, I have no complaints. The progressive asphalt set handles really nicely for me, they fit right also. I can't tell the difference between silver and gold very well, but that's just my crappy eyes. So all is well
06-24-2014, 06:45 AM
#1947
Although that rotation might only be small but since it has an effect on both front and rear and it adds and removes preload all at once I think it could be the cause. Countersunk holes in the shock tower could help =]
06-24-2014, 09:44 AM
#1948
Don't know for sure if this is the reason the FL and RR are 'heavier' but I put it down to the way the shock towers tighten up onto the bulkheads. As I tighten the front shock tower screws the shock tower might rotate slightly clockwise adding preload to the FL and removing it from the FR. When I turn the car around and tighten the rear shock tower it too can rotate clockwise a little and add preload to the RR and remove it from the RL.
Although that rotation might only be small but since it has an effect on both front and rear and it adds and removes preload all at once I think it could be the cause. Countersunk holes in the shock tower could help =]
Although that rotation might only be small but since it has an effect on both front and rear and it adds and removes preload all at once I think it could be the cause. Countersunk holes in the shock tower could help =]
06-24-2014, 10:55 AM
#1949
And how is it on the corner scales? That is what I was trying to explain, not your 0.5mm ride height difference. Personally I accept a 0.3mm difference in ride height so long as corner weights are ok.
Last edited by Quantra; 06-24-2014 at 11:29 AM.
06-24-2014, 11:37 AM
#1950
Yeah, so, the whole corner scale process is still a bit of a mystery to me. I've heard a lot of different opinions on how it should be done, and I'm not sure any one person is right. Do you measure the corner weight with shocks on the car, or do you somehow lock the arms in place?