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Old 01-25-2014, 06:51 PM   #1111
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Seeking some input into my setup. Ran last night in 13.5T Blinky.
I'm looking for ways to improve it in the following ways;

1. Early laps, especially first couple of laps just no initial steering, understeers feels like I have no front grip.
2. Mid race the rear steps out off power mid corner

The setup attached is where I ended up after 2 final. Changes I made to stop rear stepping out was rear roll bar from 1.2 to 1.1, lay rear shocks down to hole 2, and reduced rear droop from 4.4 to 4.2. I felt the car was a little more planted in the rear but didn't stop it entirely from stepping outwith no warning.

Track is low grip asphalt that evolves to medium grip. Fast track with large sweepers and technical infield.

Would appreciate any suggestions to improve
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:10 PM   #1112
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aussierevo, are you using tire warmers? What are the track and air temperatures? It sounds like maybe your car has an understeer balance, so it won't turn at the start of the race on cold tires, and then as you put heat in the fronts by pushimg through the understeer, the fronts are getting over-worked and heating up and getting sticky, but the rears are staying cold, leading to oversteer.

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Old 01-25-2014, 09:24 PM   #1113
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sorry, should have mentioned. using tire warmers. Air temp around 27 degrees celcius, track around 30. Warmers with Fx11 for around 15mins prior to race and about 3 warm up laps.
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Old 01-25-2014, 09:45 PM   #1114
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That's hot. So my theory is probably way off.

EDIT: Actually, not that hot. What tires?

-Mike
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:24 AM   #1115
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using the muchmore rush 36X premounts. They are traditionaly a tire that take 3-4 runs to 'bed in' then after that wear and perform very well in the type of conditions we race in.
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Old 01-26-2014, 04:29 AM   #1116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussierevo View Post
sorry, should have mentioned. using tire warmers. Air temp around 27 degrees celcius, track around 30. Warmers with Fx11 for around 15mins prior to race and about 3 warm up laps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussierevo View Post
using the muchmore rush 36X premounts. They are traditionaly a tire that take 3-4 runs to 'bed in' then after that wear and perform very well in the type of conditions we race in.
Are you limited on how much time you have to leave the warmers on?
Do you have to use a thin additive like FXII?
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Old 01-26-2014, 06:57 AM   #1117
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Has anyone tried swapping the FR and split RF blocks?

-Mike
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Old 01-26-2014, 08:59 AM   #1118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussierevo View Post
Seeking some input into my setup. Ran last night in 13.5T Blinky.
I'm looking for ways to improve it in the following ways;

1. Early laps, especially first couple of laps just no initial steering, understeers feels like I have no front grip.adding 0.5 mm of arm sweep will help with this
2. Mid race the rear steps out off power mid cornerwiden the rear by 0.5 mm on all 4 inserts keeping 2.5 toe in

The setup attached is where I ended up after 2 final. Changes I made to stop rear stepping out was rear roll bar from 1.2 to 1.1, lay rear shocks down to hole 2, and reduced rear droop from 4.4 to 4.2. I felt the car was a little more planted in the rear but didn't stop it entirely from stepping outwith no warning.rear droop set to 3 on the blocks but go to a 1.3 rear roll bar

Track is low grip asphalt that evolves to medium grip. Fast track with large sweepers and technical infield.

Would appreciate any suggestions to improve
it seems that your making the rear softer so its rolling to much onto the rear outer tyre,getting the rear to run flatter will give more grip

i run this set up at a very similar track,it was damp,but this works for low grip
http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...&setup=t4_2014
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Old 01-26-2014, 09:37 AM   #1119
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I did a ton of testing at the PYC track in Hong Kong on Saturday. I think it's medium grip. No traction roll as long as you stay off the curbs. But it was good grip compared to any asphalt I've run on. The layout was fairly open and high speed, with technical spots where the right line carries a lot of speed, and the wrong line runs out of track very fast losing a lot of speed.

here's a vid of the layout: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resi...t=video%2c.mp4

Here's my final setup: http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...&setup=t4_2014

Below are some things I think I learned.

Sorex tires are pretty amazing. 536 laps, graining, obviously heavily worn, but no groove of death, and still doing fast lap times. Although I do wish I had a fresh set to put on late in the day to see what I could do.

I don't like the hinge pins at different heights. I've never been able to make it work for me. It always gives me a ton of understeer with snap oversteer at times. And for this track, it felt way better letting the rear roll so the car would take a nice set, and then I could adjust the line with throttle / brake. To be more specific, I started with the rear pins .5 up, and the car sucked until I put them back down to stock.

I started with 2.7 front and 2.5-2.8 progressive rear in 1 hole from outside front and back. It felt pretty good so I stuck with that for a while. When I came back to springs, I decided to try a 2.6 rear (I didn't have another pair of 2.7). I wasn't really looking for anything specific, I just wanted to see what would happen. They felt quite similar on entry, with noticeably less on-power steering, and maybe less mid. I didn't think it was a positive change, but it was faster on the clock, so I left it. I then put the front springs down one hole to get more mid, and I think I picked up a bit of on-power as well. But I lost turn in.

Up to this point, I had been running associated 40wt oil front and rear. So I bummed some 45wt from someone for the front, and it fixed turn in, kept the mid, and gave back the rest of any on-power I had been missing. The car was getting really good at this point.

Medium camber links felt better and were much more consistent for me. I tried the short links, and the car felt grippy and aggressive, but it was not faster, and made it more difficult to carry speed through the fast technical corners. This is one of those cases where a change feels like it's good, but it's actually worse. I wouldn't have been sure without lap timing.

Inner camber link shims are a similar story. The car felt more aggressive with 1mm inside front and rear, but it was slower and less consistent on the clock. So I went back to 2mm.

I am really taking a liking to more droop than kit setups. I've done it on carpet and asphalt, and in both cases the car is just smoother and more predictable. Also, the extra droop helped with the way the car took a set in the high speed corners. I think maybe letting the car move around more lets me read what it's doing better.

Arm plates... I tested these late in the day when I was running out of other things to try on both the front and rear at the same time. I used xray plates. Compared to the same setup with no plates, the car felt just a bit more precise, with perhaps just a touch more understeer in the middle of the tighter corners. I thought they probably didn't help, but I went 0.1 faster with them, and I didn't feel like taking them off, so I left them on.

I have been using the top deck post on the motor mount for a long time, but had never done a proper comparison. So I removed the screw from the post and shimmed the top deck up with some of the CSO shims someone gave me. This made the car really numb. It felt like it did pick up mid corner steering, and felt decent, but was slower on the clock. I then put the screw back in the post with a shim under the deck, and the feel went back to the way it was before, with the same lap times. I will test this again at the low grip track, probably with short camber links, but so far the post seems like a definite win.

I also normally run without the layshaft screws. It threw some in for a run, still using the center post, and it just sucked. Might be worth trying with no post.

One thing I noticed is that I always did my best strings of good laps about 4-6 minutes into the run. I'm not sure why this is. I'm sure part of it is taking time to settle into a rhythm with changes to the car. Part of it might be the tires settling in. I was using someone's nosram carpet additive, which was very grippy but greasy feeling at first. But I'm also wondering if the shock oil was just too thick, making it take longer to heat the tires after burning off the sauce. By the end of the day, I was feeling like the oil might be a bit thick, as the car felt a bit on the numb side. But the tires were also realllly old by that point, too.

It was probably the most Epic day of RC I've had, and a huge thanks to Dennis, Franky, and Chiu for helping me get there and taking good care of me!

Next stop is back to the slippery track at Jordan Valley to see if I can find some speed there.

-Mike
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Old 01-26-2014, 10:59 AM   #1120
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What would be a good pinion size for a VTA 25.5 Ballistic Novak motor? Thanks.
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:45 AM   #1121
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Quote:
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What would be a good pinion size for a VTA 25.5 Ballistic Novak motor? Thanks.
have you asked on the vta thread?
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Old 01-26-2014, 01:05 PM   #1122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
I did a ton of testing at the PYC track in Hong Kong on Saturday. I think it's medium grip. No traction roll as long as you stay off the curbs. But it was good grip compared to any asphalt I've run on. The layout was fairly open and high speed, with technical spots where the right line carries a lot of speed, and the wrong line runs out of track very fast losing a lot of speed.

here's a vid of the layout: https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resi...t=video%2c.mp4

Here's my final setup: http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...&setup=t4_2014

Below are some things I think I learned.

Sorex tires are pretty amazing. 536 laps, graining, obviously heavily worn, but no groove of death, and still doing fast lap times. Although I do wish I had a fresh set to put on late in the day to see what I could do.

I don't like the hinge pins at different heights. I've never been able to make it work for me. It always gives me a ton of understeer with snap oversteer at times. And for this track, it felt way better letting the rear roll so the car would take a nice set, and then I could adjust the line with throttle / brake. To be more specific, I started with the rear pins .5 up, and the car sucked until I put them back down to stock.

I started with 2.7 front and 2.5-2.8 progressive rear in 1 hole from outside front and back. It felt pretty good so I stuck with that for a while. When I came back to springs, I decided to try a 2.6 rear (I didn't have another pair of 2.7). I wasn't really looking for anything specific, I just wanted to see what would happen. They felt quite similar on entry, with noticeably less on-power steering, and maybe less mid. I didn't think it was a positive change, but it was faster on the clock, so I left it. I then put the front springs down one hole to get more mid, and I think I picked up a bit of on-power as well. But I lost turn in.

Up to this point, I had been running associated 40wt oil front and rear. So I bummed some 45wt from someone for the front, and it fixed turn in, kept the mid, and gave back the rest of any on-power I had been missing. The car was getting really good at this point.

Medium camber links felt better and were much more consistent for me. I tried the short links, and the car felt grippy and aggressive, but it was not faster, and made it more difficult to carry speed through the fast technical corners. This is one of those cases where a change feels like it's good, but it's actually worse. I wouldn't have been sure without lap timing.

Inner camber link shims are a similar story. The car felt more aggressive with 1mm inside front and rear, but it was slower and less consistent on the clock. So I went back to 2mm.

I am really taking a liking to more droop than kit setups. I've done it on carpet and asphalt, and in both cases the car is just smoother and more predictable. Also, the extra droop helped with the way the car took a set in the high speed corners. I think maybe letting the car move around more lets me read what it's doing better.

Arm plates... I tested these late in the day when I was running out of other things to try on both the front and rear at the same time. I used xray plates. Compared to the same setup with no plates, the car felt just a bit more precise, with perhaps just a touch more understeer in the middle of the tighter corners. I thought they probably didn't help, but I went 0.1 faster with them, and I didn't feel like taking them off, so I left them on.

I have been using the top deck post on the motor mount for a long time, but had never done a proper comparison. So I removed the screw from the post and shimmed the top deck up with some of the CSO shims someone gave me. This made the car really numb. It felt like it did pick up mid corner steering, and felt decent, but was slower on the clock. I then put the screw back in the post with a shim under the deck, and the feel went back to the way it was before, with the same lap times. I will test this again at the low grip track, probably with short camber links, but so far the post seems like a definite win.

I also normally run without the layshaft screws. It threw some in for a run, still using the center post, and it just sucked. Might be worth trying with no post.

One thing I noticed is that I always did my best strings of good laps about 4-6 minutes into the run. I'm not sure why this is. I'm sure part of it is taking time to settle into a rhythm with changes to the car. Part of it might be the tires settling in. I was using someone's nosram carpet additive, which was very grippy but greasy feeling at first. But I'm also wondering if the shock oil was just too thick, making it take longer to heat the tires after burning off the sauce. By the end of the day, I was feeling like the oil might be a bit thick, as the car felt a bit on the numb side. But the tires were also realllly old by that point, too.

It was probably the most Epic day of RC I've had, and a huge thanks to Dennis, Franky, and Chiu for helping me get there and taking good care of me!

Next stop is back to the slippery track at Jordan Valley to see if I can find some speed there.

-Mike
I would buy some thicker rear roll bars to experiment with (i have some 1.3 & 1.4's) and also test with less rear toe as well.
Looks like a very nice track with plenty of grip to me

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Old 01-26-2014, 01:16 PM   #1123
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have you asked on the vta thread?
Nope. I have a T4 2014. Figure it made more sense here.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:04 PM   #1124
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thanks for the idea's everybody. looking forward to giving them a go.
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:40 PM   #1125
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Nope. I have a T4 2014. Figure it made more sense here.
Not many people in here run their '14 in VTA. That why he asked if you asked on the VTA thread. With the differences in sedan and VTA that thread will give you more info. Does your track run an FDR limit? Best place to start would be a 4.0 FDR if there is no limit and go from there. Track size and layout all have an affect on what gearing you will run. You didn't even say what spur gear your running and that is a big factor. Start out with 64p 100/47 and go from there. Checking temps at 2 min.
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