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Old 07-20-2014, 08:53 AM   #2056
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Last time i ran vta outdoors was when tekin just released their first boosted/turbo think it was 203?
and lrp had the spx. Lol any ways.

I had some good luck with running positive rear camber .
it seemed to be as stable in strait line acceleration or out of tue corners but give it more rotation in the corners allowing for more corner speed... and this was a 009 /photon softly sprung ,cant remember the oils we ran but that was a big difference as well. But those were the only 2 things we changed from carpet to outdoor and we(me and 2 other guys ) were by far faster than the rest .the game might have cought up but i still dont see anyone running positive rear toe so give it a shot... about +2 should do it
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:13 AM   #2057
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Double post, see below.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:13 AM   #2058
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Another quick update, from a different track today. Although the car felt better than last week at the same track, it didn't feel as good as it did yesterday on a different track. This track is much less flowing with more 180* turn-arounds and chicanes. So, I was looking for more steering yet again.

I removed the pro-dive to reset things a bit. I put on 2.6F and 2.5R springs, to stiffen things just a tad. I then enlisted the help of my local hero / super experienced racer. He looked over the car a bit and gave me a drastic change to test out: put all 4 layshaft holder screws back into the deck, put a 1mm sway bar on the back, and move the steering turbuckles into the forward hole on the knuckle (more ackermann, I believe).

The difference was very noticeable. The car turned in quicker and carved the corners a lot more, a little more "darty" but not bad. The rear was at the edge of traction, but controllably so, it stuck down unless I wanted to kick it out a bit with extra throttle. It finally felt like the front tires were making the car turn and not plowing the surface.

Not sure which of the three major changes did it, but my plan is to try back-to-back runs as is and with no rear sway bar again. Then, I'm considering swapping springs around, so 2.5F and 2.6 rear, or maybe 2.5F and 2.7R, to force more steering. I don't often hear of running softer springs in the front than the rear, and I've also not read any setups that have a sway bar only in the rear. Not sure why my car needs this much adjustment.

Anyway, not a bad day, but still about 0.5 seconds off of the fast guys, with 0.4 of that being my shitty driving
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:50 AM   #2059
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I was having trouble with the rear suddenly skipping/washing out on power, but something I did throughout the day cured that. Maybe the tires finally came in, but I thought it was the 3* of toe (as opposed to the 2* I started with) as well as standing the shocks up. That last part didn't make sense to me, as I thought laying them down gave more turn-in. Hrm. I don't have two full sets of springs, but I can try 2.7 front and 2.6 rear.
.....
Do you mean wider hexes, or? I thought wider track width would result in a more stable car, but one that has less side bite? I'm running standard hexes in the back and +0.75 in the front to keep the VTA wheels away from the steering knuckles.
........
Yeah, I think this may be the big difference. One of our veteran fast guys (25+ years of racing) told me that VTA tires require some "almost backwards" setup. They're pretty pillow-like and they overheat easily, so you have to try weird setups. My next steps, according to him, should be inboard front toe, potentially more kick-up, maybe 6* caster blocks, and maybe 2* front camber with 1* rear. Those are things I could try today.
Standing the rear shocks up (provided there is reasonable grip to begin with) should reduce steering or at least help plant the rear.

I meant increasing track width at the pivot blocks by using the wider inserts.

With those tyres being so soft, perhaps harder springs might cause overheating. Have you tried 2.3 front and 2.5 rear, that will give better turn in but might make the rear a little loose out of the corner as the weight will find it harder to transfer rearwards on power.
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:18 AM   #2060
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Standing the rear shocks up (provided there is reasonable grip to begin with) should reduce steering or at least help plant the rear.

I meant increasing track width at the pivot blocks by using the wider inserts.

With those tyres being so soft, perhaps harder springs might cause overheating. Have you tried 2.3 front and 2.5 rear, that will give better turn in but might make the rear a little loose out of the corner as the weight will find it harder to transfer rearwards on power.
Ok, so you're recommending softer springs in front than in the back, which is what I was thinking of trying. I'd like to experiment with removing the rear sway bar again and turning a bit with springs. Thinking about yesterday more and more, I think the 4 top deck screws into the layshaft holders may have been a large part of the cure. I thought on asphalt "more flex" is better, but I may have had too much, so not enough actual weight transfer to the front.

Only one way to find out
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:20 AM   #2061
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Last time i ran vta outdoors was when tekin just released their first boosted/turbo think it was 203?
and lrp had the spx. Lol any ways.

I had some good luck with running positive rear camber .
it seemed to be as stable in strait line acceleration or out of tue corners but give it more rotation in the corners allowing for more corner speed... and this was a 009 /photon softly sprung ,cant remember the oils we ran but that was a big difference as well. But those were the only 2 things we changed from carpet to outdoor and we(me and 2 other guys ) were by far faster than the rest .the game might have cought up but i still dont see anyone running positive rear toe so give it a shot... about +2 should do it
Sorry, I missed this post. I've been playing with camber and I believe 1* is the perfect amount (at least for my car) for VTA tires. The wear marks are perfect, my rear wear down very even, my fronts almost as good. The people who try 2* end up with a lot of inner tread wear and premature tire death. I think +2* would result in something similar, but it's an interesting idea.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:03 AM   #2062
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Sorry, I missed this post. I've been playing with camber and I believe 1* is the perfect amount (at least for my car) for VTA tires. The wear marks are perfect, my rear wear down very even, my fronts almost as good. The people who try 2* end up with a lot of inner tread wear and premature tire death. I think +2* would result in something similar, but it's an interesting idea.
the +2 actually gave ware in center of tire instead of inner portion. For us anyways running a very light suspention and very flexable chassis
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:42 AM   #2063
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the +2 actually gave ware in center of tire instead of inner portion. For us anyways running a very light suspention and very flexable chassis
I could see that being the case, actually. My car is at just over 1450 grams to meet the class weight requirements, so 1* has worked well. I'll try to take a picture of my well used tires to show you what I mean.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:24 PM   #2064
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Looking at the pros' set-up sheets, they seem to use a heavier shock oil in the rear than the front. What's the reason? Bigger track in Europe or there is some chassis characteristic on the 2014 that is different.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:27 PM   #2065
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Looking at the pros' set-up sheets, they seem to use a heavier shock oil in the rear than the front. What's the reason? Bigger track in Europe or there is some chassis characteristic on the 2014 that is different.
I believe it's due to them getting the rear of the car to roll more, generating corner speed. The thicker oil in the rear keeps the car from over-rotating when getting on throttle.
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Old 07-21-2014, 12:33 PM   #2066
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Ok, so you're recommending softer springs in front than in the back, which is what I was thinking of trying. I'd like to experiment with removing the rear sway bar again and turning a bit with springs. Thinking about yesterday more and more, I think the 4 top deck screws into the layshaft holders may have been a large part of the cure. I thought on asphalt "more flex" is better, but I may have had too much, so not enough actual weight transfer to the front.

Only one way to find out
I have run stiffer springs at the rear than the front and it's quite often not as drastic as you'd think (I've managed to do it a few times by accident and only realised after I'd taken the car apart )
Also, have you tried the centre post on it's own?
I always run it and every now and again put the layshaft screws in to copy a team driver etc and end up with no turn in. Admittedly, they always run well with the screws in, but I'm always quicker with the centre post.

Perhaps the 'too much flex' in the chassis is due to the soft tyres you're using.
The only only VTA style tyres I've ever run were the unbelted HPI slicks which balloon nicely on power

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Old 07-21-2014, 12:43 PM   #2067
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I have run stiffer springs at the rear than the front and it's quite often not as drastic as you'd think (I've managed to do it a few times by accident and only realised after I'd taken the car apart )
Also, have you tried the centre post on it's own?
I always run it and every now and again put the layshaft screws in to copy a team driver etc and end up with no turn in. Admittedly, they always run well with the screws in, but I'm always quicker with the centre post.

Perhaps the 'too much flex' in the chassis is due to the soft tyres you're using.
The only only VTA style tyres I've ever run were the unbelted HPI slicks which balloon nicely on power

Skiddins
I have not tried it with just the post and no layshaft screws, that could be a good experiment as well.

The VTA tires are interesting for sure. They start off pretty hard/dry and it takes a few runs to really break them in. Saucing is tricky too, depending on ambient weather and track conditions. They then grip well for a few runs, but once the tread starts to go the carcass becomes very thin and flimsy. I have found that at that point they "roll over" under steering enough to give you bad push. We call them "pillows" around here, and the name is pretty fitting
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:21 PM   #2068
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I did try that but the heat shrink kept sliding off. I may just have cheap heat shrink, I bought a "multi-size bulk" container off of Amazon. Do you have specific heat shrink you use?
Spread a thin layer of shoegoo over the pins. Kinda like making heatshrink out of glue. Iv done this for years.
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Old 07-23-2014, 05:08 AM   #2069
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hi just letting you guys know if you dont already know i read that some guys asking if the vbc gear diff fits and yes it fit fine.Only alittle shimming and works great and cheaper to then xray gear diff.very suprised on how much fits well im not really suprised cars are so alike now
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:11 AM   #2070
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Anybody else notice the battery stop? Must be a tapeless system in the works?

http://www.redrc.net/wp-content/uplo...ingPlate-2.jpg
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