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Old 04-22-2014, 11:50 AM   #1711
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I've not seen swelling in the new car yet. Perhaps after you replace the o-rings and bladders try to never use motor spray when changing oil and use only silicone oils?
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:51 AM   #1712
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Sorry to derail the 2015 conversation, but I have a 2013/14 question

Do you guys use the stock o-rings in the bottom of your shocks? Do you use the stock membranes?

Even using green slime, I get some oil leaking from the bottom of the shocks. Not horrible, but a little. Also, my stock membranes swell up so much that it's next to impossible to rebuild the shocks properly. I switched to RSD bladders and those swell as well, but do to their design it's still possible to re-use them and squeeze them in. Unfortunately this doesn't result in a dead shock, but the slow rebound is something I can live with.

Just looking for some "best practices" that I may not have found while searching this thread. Thanks!
i have used the same bladders for 14 months (racing nearly every week)and they havent swelled,can i ask what oil you use and do you clean the shocks with motor spray?
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:55 AM   #1713
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Originally Posted by R3VoLuTiOn View Post
I've not seen swelling in the new car yet. Perhaps after you replace the o-rings and bladders try to never use motor spray when changing oil and use only silicone oils?
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Originally Posted by chasingthepack View Post
i have used the same bladders for 14 months (racing nearly every week)and they havent swelled,can i ask what oil you use and do you clean the shocks with motor spray?
I bought Mike's 2013 but rebuilt the shocks with brand new bladders and o-rings. I only use AE oil and never use motor spray on the shocks specifically for swelling reasons. Mike mentioned that his bladders got swollen too, but that they sealed better after that. I don't mind the swollen bladders as much as I dislike leaking o-rings

I also realize there is a friction vs. sealing balance here, but was just curious as to what you guys are seeing.

Maybe something else is worn.. shafts perhaps? Though they look flawless.

I have another set of unopend Xray bladders, I can try those again and see what happens. I've always used AE oil, so not sure if that could be the problem?
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:17 PM   #1714
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Originally Posted by metalnut View Post
I bought Mike's 2013 but rebuilt the shocks with brand new bladders and o-rings. I only use AE oil and never use motor spray on the shocks specifically for swelling reasons. Mike mentioned that his bladders got swollen too, but that they sealed better after that. I don't mind the swollen bladders as much as I dislike leaking o-rings

I also realize there is a friction vs. sealing balance here, but was just curious as to what you guys are seeing.

Maybe something else is worn.. shafts perhaps? Though they look flawless.

I have another set of unopend Xray bladders, I can try those again and see what happens. I've always used AE oil, so not sure if that could be the problem?
I use AE oil and also get swollen bladders and a bit of leaking past the oring, so maybe it is the culprit. Maybe I'll try the kit xray oil and see if it's any better.
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:01 PM   #1715
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I use AE oil and also get swollen bladders and a bit of leaking past the oring, so maybe it is the culprit. Maybe I'll try the kit xray oil and see if it's any better.
I use AE also, havent experienced swelling as long as only shock oil touches them.
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:11 PM   #1716
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Originally Posted by R3VoLuTiOn View Post
I use AE also, havent experienced swelling as long as only shock oil touches them.
I wonder if it's an issue with the rubber used in the membranes? Maybe they use different sources/batches? I don't know how else to explain it. The ONLY thing I use motor spray on is cleaning my tires when they're off of the car.

Maybe it's the Seattle humidity?
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:17 PM   #1717
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I use all oem xray parts in the shocks with hudy/ xray oil. I let the o rings soak in shock oil for a few minutes before I install them. Nothing special. I have a little bit of seepage, but hats expected with any good shock. I'm able to reuse the bladders as many times as I would like, yes they do swell, but not enough to make it so I can't build my shocks dead.
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Old 04-22-2014, 03:45 PM   #1718
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I use all oem xray parts in the shocks with hudy/ xray oil. I let the o rings soak in shock oil for a few minutes before I install them. Nothing special. I have a little bit of seepage, but hats expected with any good shock. I'm able to reuse the bladders as many times as I would like, yes they do swell, but not enough to make it so I can't build my shocks dead.
+1

I have had spare sets of shocks etc and have only ever replaced a few bladders in 5 years of running Xray's.

When building them from new I do use a small piece of sandpaper and smooth the edges of the shock rod thread so when I push it through the o ring it doesn't scratch or tear it.

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Old 04-22-2014, 06:03 PM   #1719
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+1
The short shocks have been great for me too, no swollen O-rings or bladders using xray fluids.
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:47 PM   #1720
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I always get a little swelling, and a little seepage from the bottom. I've never had a smooth shock that didn't seep. I'd prefer smooth and seeping than dry and bound up.

As for the top bladders, yeah, they do swell, but I almost feel like they and the O-rings are designed to swell. Have you tried not using green slime on the bottom?

I've only had one badder that was so swollen I couldn't re-use it, and it was not seated properly and got stretched out, and then would no longer seat properly. I replaced all the bladders in that set so they'd match.

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Old 04-22-2014, 07:10 PM   #1721
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OK, I'm confused. Everyone seems to be using the bladders aound here. But when I check the set up sheets for the hot shoes and talk to them in the pits, none of them seem to run bladders at all. I built my shocks without the bladders and they seem fine and very responsive to tuning. What am I missing.

BTW, on the next year's car thing. At the pre-worlds the entire team seemed to be running basically the '14 kit. i didn't see any new geometry. I did see Martin madly scribbling in his in his well worn notebook. FWIW
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:18 PM   #1722
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Weird. I've never seen or even heard of not running bladders on the T4. How do you get the shock caps to seal? Cut the center of the bladder out?
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:26 PM   #1723
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Weird. I've never seen or even heard of not running bladders on the T4. How do you get the shock caps to seal? Cut the center of the bladder out?
I've never heard of running an emulsion shock either.
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Old 04-22-2014, 07:37 PM   #1724
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Originally Posted by PACaSteel View Post
OK, I'm confused. Everyone seems to be using the bladders aound here. But when I check the set up sheets for the hot shoes and talk to them in the pits, none of them seem to run bladders at all. I built my shocks without the bladders and they seem fine and very responsive to tuning. What am I missing.

BTW, on the next year's car thing. At the pre-worlds the entire team seemed to be running basically the '14 kit. i didn't see any new geometry. I did see Martin madly scribbling in his in his well worn notebook. FWIW
I dont know of anyone never running the bladders. Are you sure you didnt get it confused with the foam insert? No one runs those much.

There were early prototype 15 kits there after the race was over for practice. They were just well well hid!

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Old 04-22-2014, 07:53 PM   #1725
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I dont know of anyone never running the bladders. Are you sure you didnt get it confused with the foam insert? No one runs those much.

There were early prototype 15 kits there after the race was over for practice. They were just well well hid!

EA
Confusion resolving. Yes I was speaking of Insert (8092) and not Membrane (8082). All my leaking appears from the bottom so membrane / inset leakage is academic to me. I do appreciate the clarification.

( .... and I knew I should have gone back for open practice on Monday ... )
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