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Old 12-02-2013, 11:19 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
Run a few 5-6 minute runs with the 21.5 and come back with your findings on that and we can get a good idea of what route to take. in the WEC, the LMPs are the faster class but if a series were born that ran both WGT and the LM1, both would be run separately so going with a slower motor might not be a bad idea
I don't know if I posted this or not, maybe just sent to Howard.

I ran back to back 17.5/21.5. Car is much easier to drive with 21.5. No traction roll issues, same "hot lap" and less tire wear.

17.5 was geared at 23/72 and 21.5 was geared at 26/72. The 21.5 was an older motor that has been ran pretty hard in various other classes, a newer fresher motor I think would be faster than what I was able to do.

Maybe, just a thought here, this would be a perfect opportunity to base motor on track size. Under 3600 sq ft, 21.5 over 3600 17.5 and stipulate kit spur?
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:39 AM   #317
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Here are what I think I would like to see this class using......

I honestly think I would use 17.5....for several reasons. (1) USGT and F1 are 21.5 already, we don't need the 3rd classs.....(2) 17.5 will be good for indoor carpet and outdoor, small and big track...there are no need to STEP UP to be faster as 17.5 nowaday is plenty fast....

Now...we need to define INDOOR and OUTDOOR...I myself is not sure anyone will true down a brand new foam tires just to the fastest setting and trying to win the race. I know someone will do, but not for a $50 a set of foams...our LM1 can raise the ride height by alot to use small tires, it is there because we want customer to use the tires as long as it could. However, we can LIMIT to the final drive....must use SPEED PASSION 72T spur gear, then we can figure out what is the limit on the pinion...I know for sure our SPUR is the only one (72T with 18 diff ball holes) and there is a marking on the spur so it is easy to spot....and limited to the pinion will give a fair setting for those who use SMALL tires that they won't have too much of a adventure due to the under drive (roll out) compare to those who use the bigger tires....

Then for outdoor, we can set another type of final drive (taller) so it can be faster.....

Another reason I like 17.5....is just like the F1 using 21.5....because it is rubber on F1, and using blinky, getting the "motor of the week" with the "timing of the month" is NOT really a solution as getting the F1 hooked up on the track is the KEY instead of getting the car fast....I was HARDLY use the full throttle of my SP1 for indoor carpet and can only use full throttle on OUTDOOR (because it is bigger and longer)...and my 21.5 motor is set way less timing and gearing then what I was used on USGT....and it leave plenty of room for the 21.5 to be faster IF I choose to...

Same thing on LM1....using 17.5...I can gear low to get more consistent lap time (easier to control....much like what Eric said when he was running 21.5 compare to 17.5) and once I have a better setup car, I have plenty of room to gear the 17.5 and timing and still don't need to buy the fastest motor on the market....and if using outdoor, I can gear up and add timing on the existing 17.5 and still get good speed.

Just like the USVTA rule, I think we need to limit 1 or 2 items on the car and make it grow....I do not want to see a 1 brand motor or ESC (I kinda want to but I don't think we should) so I am thinking about limited to the SPUR GEAR with our brand's spur....and limit the gearing to fit in INDOOR smaller track and OUTDOOR big track....

Overall, I am sure the FOAM will work on both track.........but yes, I am already pushing for the RUBBER TIRES to send me sample to test on indoor carpet and outdoor. But.....one key problem we are facing is, making WIDE (rear) low profile rubber tires is actually very HARD and EXPENSIVE to do...but I know Pardus is working out some new rubber material and will send us some sample to test.

Using F1 tires on LeMan is a NO....that totally beat the purpose of running the LeMan body. Also....running F103GT with TC has the same idea, that should not be allowed. USGT are all going for the realistic scale looking, so does F1...and LeMan should do the same....
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:05 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
Run a few 5-6 minute runs with the 21.5 and come back with your findings on that and we can get a good idea of what route to take. in the WEC, the LMPs are the faster class but if a series were born that ran both WGT and the LM1, both would be run separately so going with a slower motor might not be a bad idea
Ill swap it tonight or tomorrow for 21.5 I didn't have my car running right as it was hard to control during first heat so I ended up turning down the epa with 17.5

I need to order parts for us are all the sp1 parts same minus chassis?

Which website has all parts not just a few things?
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Old 12-02-2013, 12:53 PM   #319
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Nice Kit & Body !!
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:43 PM   #320
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Default foam tires...

To add empirical observations on the foam tires...

Two of us had a "shake down" day at our local carpet track with the LM-1.

The carpet is rough, they run an off-road program with wooden jumps, so there are splinters in odd places - as you could imagine.

The car was stunningly good out of the box. What most would be interested in is that after many, many hard runs, there was no discernible tire wear. I suspect a set should last a good long time. We had no issues with chunking either - again, pretty rough carpet.

I had my doubts as well, being an old school 1/12 scaler back in the day. I really don't see the downside of the foam. Anyone, beginner or experienced driver can wheel this car without a ton of anxiety, and that equals fun.

This only needs to get stupid if we allow it to get stupid.
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Old 12-02-2013, 01:44 PM   #321
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Here are what I think I would like to see this class using......

However, we can LIMIT to the final drive....must use SPEED PASSION 72T spur gear, then we can figure out what is the limit on the pinion...I know for sure our SPUR is the only one (72T with 18 diff ball holes) and there is a marking on the spur so it is easy to spot....and limited to the pinion will give a fair setting for those who use SMALL tires that they won't have too much of a adventure due to the under drive (roll out) compare to those who use the bigger tires....

Using F1 tires on LeMan is a NO....that totally beat the purpose of running the LeMan body. Also....running F103GT with TC has the same idea, that should not be allowed. USGT are all going for the realistic scale looking, so does F1...and LeMan should do the same....
Solara: I agree 100%. I do hope that they can get the rubber tire manufacturing methods worked out ok too.

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Old 12-02-2013, 02:22 PM   #322
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Ill swap it tonight or tomorrow for 21.5 I didn't have my car running right as it was hard to control during first heat so I ended up turning down the epa with 17.5

I need to order parts for us are all the sp1 parts same minus chassis?

Which website has all parts not just a few things?
Get ahold of Brad at F1RCLab, he may not have everything listed, but I do know he has parts for SP1.

The differences I found would be, the left side counter weight rear hub, front upper arms/castor blocks, lower arm mount spacers, fr arm mount bridge. Otherwise I think everything else is the same
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Old 12-02-2013, 02:42 PM   #323
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To add empirical observations on the foam tires...

Two of us had a "shake down" day at our local carpet track with the LM-1.

The carpet is rough, they run an off-road program with wooden jumps, so there are splinters in odd places - as you could imagine.

The car was stunningly good out of the box. What most would be interested in is that after many, many hard runs, there was no discernible tire wear. I suspect a set should last a good long time. We had no issues with chunking either - again, pretty rough carpet.

I had my doubts as well, being an old school 1/12 scaler back in the day. I really don't see the downside of the foam. Anyone, beginner or experienced driver can wheel this car without a ton of anxiety, and that equals fun.

This only needs to get stupid if we allow it to get stupid.
Good to hear that....and I definitely need everyone here to keep running the foam and give us the feedback...if a set of foam can last 4-5 race day (assumed 6-8 runs per race day including practice) I think that is almost as good as the rubber tires on F1 car...
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:06 PM   #324
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Nothing wrong with the foams durability wise but the way the cars drive on foam vs. rubber will be a lot different. F1 seemed to grow more when it went to rubber tires. And I was a foam tire guy....
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Old 12-02-2013, 03:54 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by ercwhtsd View Post
Get ahold of Brad at F1RCLab, he may not have everything listed, but I do know he has parts for SP1.

The differences I found would be, the left side counter weight rear hub, front upper arms/castor blocks, lower arm mount spacers, fr arm mount bridge. Otherwise I think everything else is the same

ive looked at his site and he has 3 optional parts only. (motor mount, steering rack and servo mounts) trying to find a site where i can order a bundle of parts not just a few from here and there and pay shipping to different places.
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:35 PM   #326
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I would still prefer rubber tires! Can't wait to see who comes out with a set for this car. Pardus or Sweep or whoever!
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Old 12-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #327
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ran my car over the weekend. i ran two classes so i squeezed in the lm-1 and made no adjustments except for saucing 1/2 the front and the entire rear. the track had low grip(couldnt put power down with 21.5 rubber tire f1 without spinning). to my suprise the car was good with the stock setup. it had plenty of steering and due to low traction the car pushed a little, but the car was good. here is a quick little video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9hB0dztbIY
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:36 AM   #328
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I would still prefer rubber tires! Can't wait to see who comes out with a set for this car. Pardus or Sweep or whoever!
It's rare that choice is a bad thing.

My worry is that someone on the fence will have unnecessary concerns with the foam tires. These aren't a super soft, fast wearing, compound. They'll serve you well until rubber tires become available, should that be your direction. We were more surprised by the durability. Pretty hard hits with no chassis damage at all. Tightened a few loose screws after a fresh build, that was it.

I'm not sure there is a better deal in RC for under $200.00. I feel the quality and the selection of materials is exceptional for anything near this cost.
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Last edited by celt; 12-03-2013 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 12-03-2013, 05:16 AM   #329
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I think where the big question will be answered is on the outdoor tracks. its shown promise on carpet but unless somebody has ideal outdoor conditions and access to indoor asphalt, that segment of testing will have to occur next year
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Old 12-03-2013, 05:48 AM   #330
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We have several on the fence at our local club. We are indoor carpet med to high grip. My guess it will take 1 person to purchase a kit and show it on the track. I am sure once that happens the rest will follow suit. I plan on ordering a kit very soon.
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