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Old 11-13-2013, 10:41 AM   #181
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We have a local guy that has run the same paint scheme on all of his cars since the late 80's. It is basically the Red/White Marlboro colors. It's a very simple design. Instead of red however, he uses pink. That's just his color. There was a big argument and he was told that if he showed up with that body that he'd never be allowed to race it. He never did end up racing which is sad since he once owned Bullet Racing and Raborn Racing which were 80's/90's RC companies.

Since I have always been a Mazda fan, I wanted to do a Mazda inspired paint scheme. Much like the green/orange 787B in design but with newer colors from when Mazda ran a rotary in ALMS several years ago. I wanted either the yellow/blue of that design or white/blue variation of it but applied to the F1 car. Again, I was told that Mazda didn't race in F1 and I therefor wouldn't be allowed to race. I too have never raced in the F1 class here and have just not gotten around to unloading the car yet.

In both cases we wanted a real race style livery. Barry wanted his to be Marlboro themed but in pink rather than red and I wanted a Mazda color scheme but applied to a class that they never raced in. A "what if" car. These weren't flashy tc style airbrush masterpieces. They were race liveries. Since they didn't apply to the specific type of car, we were told, don't show up. We didn't. F1 is nearly dead here now. It had a short life.

Since LeMans is my personal favorite race and racing series, I intend to buy one of these just to run at the track. I don't care about racing it. I just want to have fun with no politics and that pretty much means no racing.
that is really sad...but it is being revived and without paint scheme limitations. And no politics.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:27 PM   #182
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It is the DIRECT BOLT ON option parts....not retro-fit option parts. If someone is mounting the WGT axle with tires, that is a NO. Rob King is already drafting the 1st draft about the LeMan class and do allow the F1 conversion on it but must use the single nut wheel mounting axle like the F1 does.

I can see there might be some WGT conversion (using the F1 axle on it and using front wheel knuckle for F1)....this class is new, and is fresh, and I think there should be some room to attract driver to join first...
I see now that a realistic/scale LeMans prototype class will have to come from the F1 racer and chassis owners. I see F1 guys being more enthusiastic towards scale realism than WGT racers.

I would suggest allowing converted F1 chassis and others being allowed to run as long as the accept F1 wheels (F1 style hex in the rear, 5mm stub axle on the front) and are 200mm wide, 270 to 280mm in wheelbase. I would also allow Group C and GTP bodies as long as they don't have a wedge type tail (instead of a seperately molded wing). Right now the only GTP style bodies that fit that description are the ones produced by Tamiya (Mercedes C11, Nissan R91CP and the Jaguar XJR12). This will hopefully encourage manufacturers to produce new scale and realistic prototype bodies.

I would keep the electronics configuration the same as used in F1 cars.
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:55 PM   #183
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Really its concessions like that that are the death of many a spec class. Keep the rules simple and let the class grow, and then maybe after its had some success, see if opening up the rules will benefit the class and work from there. Its why the TCS has seen so much success over the years. Stick with the LM1 chassis for starters and build it from there.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:07 PM   #184
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One thing that I would like (and I'm only speaking for myself) is to have a spec class with the LM-1 with a SpeedPassion ESC and Motor, maybe a battery limit like USVTA has, etc. With Ed's idea that most of the support will come from the F1 crowd, maybe a 2s/21.5 spec? Might have to put that package together myself and run it between heats to drum up interest.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:19 PM   #185
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Might not be a bad idea. When I was thinking out how to have something that could be run in concert with WGT, and the 17.5 from Speed Passion looked like one that couldnt be messed with too much and turn things into a motor war. Since the two classes wont be on track together much like in WEC or USCR (formerly GARRS and ALMS), I guess you could have more leeway with what motor to use since we dont have to have the "prototype" class as the faster of the two, so a 21.5 might not be a bad idea.
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:31 PM   #186
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Might not be a bad idea. When I was thinking out how to have something that could be run in concert with WGT, and the 17.5 from Speed Passion looked like one that couldnt be messed with too much and turn things into a motor war. Since the two classes wont be on track together much like in WEC or USCR (formerly GARRS and ALMS), I guess you could have more leeway with what motor to use since we dont have to have the "prototype" class as the faster of the two, so a 21.5 might not be a bad idea.
A 21.5 on 2s will be faster than a 13.5 on 1s, all other things being equal. 25.5/2s would be closer to 13.5/1s.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:00 PM   #187
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A 21.5 on 2s will be faster than a 13.5 on 1s, all other things being equal. 25.5/2s would be closer to 13.5/1s.
Thanks for that howard...as I said, since the GTE/WGT and LMP would run separately, a lot more leeway can be had with the motor choice, just as long as it can be spec'd in such a way that we wont have a motor/ESC war which with the V3.0 and the Speed Passion ESC should not be a bigtime issue
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:54 PM   #188
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Really its concessions like that that are the death of many a spec class. Keep the rules simple and let the class grow, and then maybe after its had some success, see if opening up the rules will benefit the class and work from there. Its why the TCS has seen so much success over the years. Stick with the LM1 chassis for starters and build it from there.
If it's a "spec" class we're talking about, then yes, limit it to SP1 chassis and their LM-A body. While we are at it, limit the ESC, tires and motors to only Speedpassion products-they make good stuff and I'm sure they wouldn't mind selling more electronics. If that's the case though, I don't see a "spec" class getting too high off the ground. I was looking it at it from a more inclusive and more general prototype body style point of view. In any case, good luck to you guys.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:32 PM   #189
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If it's a "spec" class we're talking about, then yes, limit it to SP1 chassis and their LM-A body. While we are at it, limit the ESC, tires and motors to only Speedpassion products-they make good stuff and I'm sure they wouldn't mind selling more electronics. If that's the case though, I don't see a "spec" class getting too high off the ground. I was looking it at it from a more inclusive and more general prototype body style point of view. In any case, good luck to you guys.
If this class can get going we could have a huge event with the the LM1 spec class, a more open 200mm LMP class for F1 conversions and what not, GTE/WGT and a Pro10 class for 235mm cars or something
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:52 PM   #190
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Thanks for that howard...as I said, since the GTE/WGT and LMP would run separately, a lot more leeway can be had with the motor choice, just as long as it can be spec'd in such a way that we wont have a motor/ESC war which with the V3.0 and the Speed Passion ESC should not be a bigtime issue
I pointed that out because even 13.5/1s is too fast for me on a small carpet track. I think a lot of guys that are interested in prototypes are also at the age where they need a slower car. I certainly am.

Lately I've been playing with a 200mm pan car with a prototype body, running 17.5 1s. It's fun, and gives about the same lap times as USGT.

Speed Passion has a 17.5 motor that would be great on 1s. They also have a 25.5 motor that would be nice (but faster) on 2s.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:55 PM   #191
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If it's a "spec" class we're talking about, then yes, limit it to SP1 chassis and their LM-A body. While we are at it, limit the ESC, tires and motors to only Speedpassion products-they make good stuff and I'm sure they wouldn't mind selling more electronics. If that's the case though, I don't see a "spec" class getting too high off the ground. I was looking it at it from a more inclusive and more general prototype body style point of view. In any case, good luck to you guys.
That was precisely what killed F1 here and caused about half of those interested in it to simply not show up at all. It was sad. There were some very vocal people who said "stock" only and then proceeded to define stock as no aftermarket parts on the car. The motor was any 21.5. Any blinky speedo. Spec tires. Complete real, correct for your chosen body liveries only. No "what if" paint schemes. No modifications to the original colors of teams. If you wanted a Ferrari or Lotus paint scheme and someone else already had it, pick another. You get the idea. Then some of the same people who set the rules then went about using home made parts since they weren't "aftermarket" but other people weren't allowed to run their aftermarket or home made parts because they weren't "stock". It got to be too ridiculous and took the fun out of it. The people who did participate enjoyed themselves for a short time but they kept evolving the rules around their own personal interests until it turned into a free for all. Class basically died.

What I envision a "spec" LeMans class should be is:
1: Blinky mode esc.
2: Motor is open provided it is the same turn, i.e. 21.5, 25.5, etc.
3: Any 2S hard case battery up to a maximum determined mah rating.
4: Tires may be spec as dictated by any particular track but many not necessarily be the same tire for different tracks due to variation in surface. At max, two different spec tires may be chosen such as a soft or hard compound. This is true to real racing.
5: Body must be realistic class specific LeMans type based on a real car past or present. No Protoform P905 type of bodies.
6: Vehicle mods are open provided the car fits within a certain wheelbase and width. Let's face it, the differences we'd see are so small that they don't often really give much of an advantage.
7: Minimum weight limit.
8: Realistic paint scemes are highly encouraged but not mandatory.

I don't think a set of rules like this takes anything away from the feel of a LeMans specific class or the intent of it. It keeps things close enough that it comes down to setup and driver. I know some will say that person X has brand A motor while person Y has brand B motor. That is a part of competition. It really isn't as easy as saying any certain motor will always win. Let's face it, real LeMans racing is all about competing technologies. That's what makes it so much fun to watch. This should be embraced in rc LeMans style car to an extent as well. This is just my opinion of course. It's rigid enough to make purists happy but not so rigid that it would turn away others. Above all else, keep the rules consistent. Don't keep changing them.
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:24 PM   #192
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That was precisely what killed F1 here and caused about half of those interested in it to simply not show up at all. It was sad. There were some very vocal people who said "stock" only and then proceeded to define stock as no aftermarket parts on the car. The motor was any 21.5. Any blinky speedo. Spec tires. Complete real, correct for your chosen body liveries only. No "what if" paint schemes. No modifications to the original colors of teams. If you wanted a Ferrari or Lotus paint scheme and someone else already had it, pick another. You get the idea. Then some of the same people who set the rules then went about using home made parts since they weren't "aftermarket" but other people weren't allowed to run their aftermarket or home made parts because they weren't "stock". It got to be too ridiculous and took the fun out of it. The people who did participate enjoyed themselves for a short time but they kept evolving the rules around their own personal interests until it turned into a free for all. Class basically died.

What I envision a "spec" LeMans class should be is:
1: Blinky mode esc.
2: Motor is open provided it is the same turn, i.e. 21.5, 25.5, etc.
3: Any 2S hard case battery up to a maximum determined mah rating.
4: Tires may be spec as dictated by any particular track but many not necessarily be the same tire for different tracks due to variation in surface. At max, two different spec tires may be chosen such as a soft or hard compound. This is true to real racing.
5: Body must be realistic class specific LeMans type based on a real car past or present. No Protoform P905 type of bodies.
6: Vehicle mods are open provided the car fits within a certain wheelbase and width. Let's face it, the differences we'd see are so small that they don't often really give much of an advantage.
7: Minimum weight limit.
8: Realistic paint scemes are highly encouraged but not mandatory.

I don't think a set of rules like this takes anything away from the feel of a LeMans specific class or the intent of it. It keeps things close enough that it comes down to setup and driver. I know some will say that person X has brand A motor while person Y has brand B motor. That is a part of competition. It really isn't as easy as saying any certain motor will always win. Let's face it, real LeMans racing is all about competing technologies. That's what makes it so much fun to watch. This should be embraced in rc LeMans style car to an extent as well. This is just my opinion of course. It's rigid enough to make purists happy but not so rigid that it would turn away others. Above all else, keep the rules consistent. Don't keep changing them.
That's pretty much what I was suggesting prior to my last, slightly facetious post. If you include F1 chassis with a Speedpassion LM-A body and the correct wheels you are going to have more entries per race. Give them a minimum weight that will not put the SP1 chassis at a disadvantage. And as far as bodies go, there really are no other LMP or scale/realistic prototype bodies besides Tamiya's-all of which are out of production anyway.

In regards to the SP1 with the LM-A body, I am really happy that someone has finally put an LM chassis on the market. I hope that Speedpassion does not stop with the LM-A body though. I'm waiting to see what else they come up with body wise before jumping in. Although they did an outstanding job modeling the car they did, I find the real life R18 to be a hideously ugly car, among many of the latest LMP cars. IMO, The last good looking LMP car in my opinion was the last version of the Peugeot 908 or the Dome S102. I won't make any other body suggestions besides that one, as I hope to produce my own bodies sooner rather than later, specifically for F1 type chassis and dont want to give away my planned product line.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:14 PM   #193
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im all good for a spec/semi spec class. gt3/usgt here locally is the most close wheel to wheel racing we have. other classes have turned into if you dont have this motor or this other hand wound motor you're screwed. if we do decide to run a specific esc and motor like vta i wouldnt mind selling one of my spare esc and motor and grab the cheaper correct combo.

ill try 21.5 and 17.5 in mine as soon as i get it.

howard whats the status for lm1 days are going by slowwwwwww
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:17 PM   #194
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My only suggestions really would be the Toyota TS030 and the Lola B12/60 or 80.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:28 PM   #195
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Well, today is my birthday. My loving and lovely wife ordered an LM-A body for me and the SpeedPassion LM wheels and tires. I have a couple of unbuilt F1 cars in the wrecked room, so I'll be rolling soon! :-P~
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