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Old 01-26-2015, 08:01 PM   #256
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I would still have a set of the Shimizu 575's rears just in case its really cold in the morning or overcast and the Yokomo's don't work.
Just stick with the mediums on the front and only change the rear tyres as the temp comes up.

As a guide for track temperature for a good track (temperature of the tarmac)

0 to 20 deg use Shimizu 575's
20 to 30 deg Yokomo's
30Deg + Ride R1

Some really grippy tracks you can get away R1's at about 25 deg, but you will have to test this out beforehand. When I am at practice before an event I usually wont change too much on the setup, ill just spent the time working out what track temps the tyres like for that particular track. Then tweak the setup from there.

I know lots of guys in the states like to use the 572's (hard) on rear, but on our tracks we either find them not soft enough to work and by the time the track temp comes up the Ride's are faster. The Rides work better when they are super hot, so I normally heat them up to 60 deg before a run.

Sorry information overload...
Nah thats awesome stuff and thanks Beth.
will find some 575s to buy and then i will be set.
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Old 01-26-2015, 08:16 PM   #257
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Hopefully we can get Rob's car running right this Friday

Beth.
I really hope so too.
I'll try lighter (350-400 cst) in my shocks this week as opposed to 600cst that I had in them last week, and try changing the caster as well, to hopefully see an improvement.
(will have the F113 with me if not)

I still feel that the body plays a big difference in the way a F1 car handles too. As I have stated to others, this car feels almost the same as the Serpent F1 I had with the same body (Speed Passion Mk1). The car is very quick, but feels "loose", and vague at the same time, which is how my Serpent felt to drive.
I'm going to hit up Walters this weekend to see if they have the Serpent F1 body in stock, if not I have found an online retailer that has them in stock, and will order one. May even order the Mk2 shocks, depending on how the car performs on Friday night.

On a side note, I was stripping down my F113 and found one of the ball ends inside one end of a side link had all but sheared off. The ball end was only hanging on by a sliver of material which was twisting around the screw holding it in.
This is what I am hoping was causing my handling problems with that car.

Regards
Rob
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Old 01-26-2015, 09:51 PM   #258
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Rob I wouldnt worry too much about the body, the difference between the various shells is minimal at best. aside from the lexan front wings, any wing that keeps its shape will drive about the same.

Start with tires and tune the chassis for balance. On asphalt here most run exclusively soft pit fronts w/ hard rears the same as we do on carpet. Although soft rears grip better in the cold, we race in parking lots where the pavement is more abrasive causing them to tear open within a minute or 2. Around 75F the ride rears come in and surpass the pits rears by 80f. at 85F tamiya kit fronts w/ ride rears become the best combo.

Here we do hard rear / soft front up to 25c
ride rear / soft front from 25-30c
tamiya kit front w/ ride rear 30+c
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Old 01-26-2015, 10:21 PM   #259
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Hey rob is it your diff possibly causing the problem? I had to run my rebel diff really tight to get it to work but in Petes serpent we ran a looser diff to get it to work. Just my 2c. Pat
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Old 01-27-2015, 12:06 AM   #260
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Rob I wouldnt worry too much about the body, the difference between the various shells is minimal at best. aside from the lexan front wings, any wing that keeps its shape will drive about the same.

Start with tires and tune the chassis for balance. On asphalt here most run exclusively soft pit fronts w/ hard rears the same as we do on carpet. Although soft rears grip better in the cold, we race in parking lots where the pavement is more abrasive causing them to tear open within a minute or 2. Around 75F the ride rears come in and surpass the pits rears by 80f. at 85F tamiya kit fronts w/ ride rears become the best combo.

Here we do hard rear / soft front up to 25c
ride rear / soft front from 25-30c
tamiya kit front w/ ride rear 30+c
Where I mainly race it's either indoors on a painted "Boral Coat" or outdoors ashphalt and/or painted Boral coat. (Boral coat is like a non slip paint with some type of grit mixed in with it)

On the Indoor track we mainly use Pit mediums on the front, & Pit softs on the rear, as the surface is a low to medium track.
Outdoors in summer we mainly stick with the Pit mediums on the front & Ride R1's on the rear.

I'm not sure if it's the car's front suspension, or the F104 style tires up front that makes the steering feel vague & inconsistent, or the fact I've gotten too used to F103 style tires which have less side flex & feel more precise?

Beth suggested to get myself a F103 style front end, and then run the F103 style tires to see if the car feels better to drive. I have a 3 Racing F103 front suspension kit on order, so depending on how the car handles this coming Friday I probably will follow Beth's suggestion.
The only problem with this is I'd just have another "F103" style car, which I'm a bit reluctant about because I was looking for a good handling car that I can run the F104 style wheel & tires tires on varying surfaces.

Pat, I'll try setting the diff at different settings during practice, and see if that affects the car, I try to set it as close as I can to being free, but not slipping when accelerating hard.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions & help on here, hopefully we can get this car going before I abandon it completely.

Regards
Rob.
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Old 01-27-2015, 10:45 AM   #261
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by 'F103 style tires' do you mean foams?


When I first built my car I had some similar issues so I put the car on the four scales and found it was the front kingpin settings, the where not equal even though they measured , 3mm, the same.
Also I could never get the car to work well with the stock shocks, the bladder shocks with machined pistons and spacer was a different car
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Old 01-27-2015, 11:07 AM   #262
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In my experience the added width and the lower profile f103 tires are both faster and more stable, they are just not legal here anymore. For comparison my wide f104wgt is on average 4% faster than my narrow f104wgt that has proven faster than a crc driven by a factory driver.

Your racing surfaces sound very different from what we have gear solid I would suggest using whatever tires the fast guys are.

Should you prefer the 103 front end setup I would go with the regular Tamiya block style one, it works well and the composite doesn't wear out quickly like the 3racing one.
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:24 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by JayL View Post
by 'F103 style tires' do you mean foams?


When I first built my car I had some similar issues so I put the car on the four scales and found it was the front kingpin settings, the where not equal even though they measured , 3mm, the same.
Also I could never get the car to work well with the stock shocks, the bladder shocks with machined pistons and spacer was a different car
I should have added that I meant rubber F103 tires, which are still legal to race with here in Australia.

I think that is a significant problem as well, that I still have the stock shocks on the car, hopefully they'll still have the bladder shocks, & pistons in stock by the time my payday comes around so I can order a set. Will still try lighter oil in the stock ones on Friday, and see if there's any difference to the handling.

Again, thanks for the help, suggestions & advice.

Regards
Rob.
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:52 PM   #264
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Is there any other brand of shock you can use instead of the factory ones? Would a Tamiya F104 damper or a touring car damper work?
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:54 PM   #265
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Rob you can try my bladder shocks as well during practice, it wont take us a few seconds to swap out,
I am sure I will be busy teaching Nutter how to drive a Yokomo to do much practice anyway....

Unfortunately not Fred, they are a very small shock.
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:55 PM   #266
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Skinny F104v2 damper will not work, its too long. Regular TC or M-chassis shocks are too large in diameter.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:10 PM   #267
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The only ones I can think of that "may" work are the small roll dampening shock that is used on a F113, but I think they'd be too long, and they are not bladder shocks either.

Thanks Beth, that way I'll know for sure if they make it better or not. I'll do one practice run using my shocks, then swap them over to yours & take the car back out to get a good comparison between them.

So what class is Nutter racing with the Yokomo? Will he be stepping up to Stock?

Rob.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:27 PM   #268
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Thanks Beth, that way I'll know for sure if they make it better or not. I'll do one practice run using my shocks, then swap them over to yours & take the car back out to get a good comparison between them.

So what class is Nutter racing with the Yokomo? Will he be stepping up to Stock?

Rob.
Sounds like a good idea,

Nope I have my smelly 21.5 Reedy in the car at the moment ready for VTA night. I have swapped out some of carbon suspension parts with the more flexible and forgiving plastic parts so it will be interesting what Nutter can do with it
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:39 PM   #269
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Sounds like a good idea,

Nope I have my smelly 21.5 Reedy in the car at the moment ready for VTA night. I have swapped out some of carbon suspension parts with the more flexible and forgiving plastic parts so it will be interesting what Nutter can do with it
Heh, that motor is a one of a kind, will be interesting to see how he goes on the night.
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Old 01-29-2015, 12:44 AM   #270
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Got my kit this week and halfway done.

For those that went direct steering and cut the bridge out of the front lower carbon plate. Did you cut the bridge out for more clearance for standard size servo or also for low-pro servos as well?
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