RCHSR: Radio Controlled Historic Sportscar Racing
09-20-2013, 07:44 PM
#1
RCHSR: Radio Controlled Historic Sportscar Racing
I believe that there are more than just a few racers out there that prefer the simplicity of a pan car over the complexity of a 4WD touring car as well as preferring Group C and GTP prototype bodies over touring cars or unrealistic World GT bodies.
For those racers I would suggest a new class structure, along the lines of VTA, except this would be for 1/10 200mm pan cars with GTP and LMP bodies. I would call it Radio Controlled Historic Sportscar Racing-RCHSR for short as there is a real life full-scale HSR. This would be a class of racing for club level racing of realistic looking GTP style cars, similar to what you see in VTA. There are many people with Tamiya 1/10 GTP cars with no where to race as well as people who either have 1/10 pan cars or would like to race one and not be stuck with a body type they don't care for.
Back in the nineteen eighties, Group C and IMSA was able to succeed for many years because many customers were able to buy turn-key racecars from Porsche like the 956 and later the 962 GTP and Gp.C variants. Without those cars the racetracks would have been much emptier. Today, we need a company like Tamiya to do the same thing that Porsche did and offer a decent club-level 1/10 pan car with a realistic a beautifully done body (I suggest a Porsche 962) to fill the majority of the entries in a revitalized 1/10 scale pan can car class.
I come at this as a fan of Group C and IMSA, and the Porsche 962 in particular. I also prefer scale realism over "un-scale" and unrealistic reproductions or representations of cars. That is why I would prefer Tamiya to make this particular car-the 962. I would like to see them reproduce the classic form of this car as they have done with the rest of their 1/10 line of GTP cars. If not Tamiya, then maybe Protoform for the body: Dale Epp is a true artist! He does excellent work-I would only ask him to be true to the original form of the car and not take too many "aerodynamic liberties" that would detract from the 962's classic lines and/or proportions. There are of course many other cars that raced in Group C and IMSA that can be done such as the Corvette GTP, Jaguar XJR-8, 9, and 10 as well as many, many more.
For those of you who would say "not another class" I would say to you "fine, you're happy with what you got- great! Many of us are not and this is what we would like!" For those that would tell us we've got 1/12 or World GT for pan car racing choices I would respond with "1/12 bodies are unrealistic door stop wedges and World GT cars are ugly. Don't offer me apples or bananas when what I want is an orange.
.…....................…
I've also attached an image of a car I would like to see Tamiya produce.
For those racers I would suggest a new class structure, along the lines of VTA, except this would be for 1/10 200mm pan cars with GTP and LMP bodies. I would call it Radio Controlled Historic Sportscar Racing-RCHSR for short as there is a real life full-scale HSR. This would be a class of racing for club level racing of realistic looking GTP style cars, similar to what you see in VTA. There are many people with Tamiya 1/10 GTP cars with no where to race as well as people who either have 1/10 pan cars or would like to race one and not be stuck with a body type they don't care for.
Back in the nineteen eighties, Group C and IMSA was able to succeed for many years because many customers were able to buy turn-key racecars from Porsche like the 956 and later the 962 GTP and Gp.C variants. Without those cars the racetracks would have been much emptier. Today, we need a company like Tamiya to do the same thing that Porsche did and offer a decent club-level 1/10 pan car with a realistic a beautifully done body (I suggest a Porsche 962) to fill the majority of the entries in a revitalized 1/10 scale pan can car class.
I come at this as a fan of Group C and IMSA, and the Porsche 962 in particular. I also prefer scale realism over "un-scale" and unrealistic reproductions or representations of cars. That is why I would prefer Tamiya to make this particular car-the 962. I would like to see them reproduce the classic form of this car as they have done with the rest of their 1/10 line of GTP cars. If not Tamiya, then maybe Protoform for the body: Dale Epp is a true artist! He does excellent work-I would only ask him to be true to the original form of the car and not take too many "aerodynamic liberties" that would detract from the 962's classic lines and/or proportions. There are of course many other cars that raced in Group C and IMSA that can be done such as the Corvette GTP, Jaguar XJR-8, 9, and 10 as well as many, many more.
For those of you who would say "not another class" I would say to you "fine, you're happy with what you got- great! Many of us are not and this is what we would like!" For those that would tell us we've got 1/12 or World GT for pan car racing choices I would respond with "1/12 bodies are unrealistic door stop wedges and World GT cars are ugly. Don't offer me apples or bananas when what I want is an orange.
.…....................…
I've also attached an image of a car I would like to see Tamiya produce.
Last edited by Ed Delgado; 09-20-2013 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Spell check
09-20-2013, 08:26 PM
#2
I think the solution could be as simple as allowing WGT to use the same bodies as USGT. Any car that competes in full scale GT racing is OK. That said if you want to race GTP, why not just use the old 235mm cars?
09-20-2013, 09:02 PM
#3
Group C/Le Mans is also my favorite. I've fallen in love with the two Tamiya RM01 cars I've owned. One 962 and one Toyota. I'm holding back on Tamiya's beautiful Mazda car. The bodies for these cars would go straight on to any current 1/12 car. So we wouldnt even have to ask the manufacturers, just begin using what already exists.
Perhaps:
Any 1/12 pan chassis
Tamiya only bodies
Relatively slow motor limit
Spec tires
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ng-master.html
Good Luck!
Perhaps:
Any 1/12 pan chassis
Tamiya only bodies
Relatively slow motor limit
Spec tires
http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ng-master.html
Good Luck!
09-20-2013, 10:09 PM
#4
I would like race GTP. I've got a 10L2, but the problem is finding bodies, which is limited. Mcallister has few, Protoform has the Puegot. I don't know if Andy is still in back in business, he has his Mercedes. Back then, I think someone made the Bud Light Jag, XJR14-16. Dahms had couple or few.
09-20-2013, 10:50 PM
#5
Back in the early 90's Andy's bodies made just about every prototype body you could think of! I was a big fan of his 1/12 scale bodies...not just Porsches or Mercedes but Nissans, Kudzu's, Spice, Aston Martins, AAR Toyotas. He also made a bunch of 1/10 (235mm) bodies. Didn't he rerelease the Mercedes C9 or C11 just a few years ago? If he were to resurrect these molds, you'd have all the bodies you would need.
My "Dream" class (other than Vintage F1) would be a Can Am class with 60's and 70's Mclarens, Lolas, Porsches and Shadows.
My "Dream" class (other than Vintage F1) would be a Can Am class with 60's and 70's Mclarens, Lolas, Porsches and Shadows.
09-20-2013, 11:51 PM
#6
I just painted up one of McAllister's 190mm Corvette Daytona Prototype bodies about a week ago - I have no real plans to race it, I only painted it because I designed some decals for it and wanted to see how they were going to look - I think I'm going to fit this body to my CRC pan car instead of my WGT body - and see how it mounts... unless someone wants to take it off my hands and try it themselves (It may take me a while to get around to is...)
I shot these photos at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca in 2012.
I shot these photos at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca in 2012.
09-21-2013, 04:59 AM
#7
I'm all for this!
We still run 1/10 pan cars at our local track. I have Lemans-style/GTP/prototype bodies on my cars (the one I drive, plus two loaners). I much prefer these bodies both for the realism, and because they look like race cars, not street cars.
While we have enough guys who have resurrected old cars or have purchased new cars to run a "normal" pan class, at the moment we race Breakout because that's what the guys want. During practice I run at full-bore just for fun, and can easily keep up with the faster TC guys, despite not being a "fast guy" myself!
We race the 200mm and 235mm cars together. The 235mm cars are definitely more stable than the 200mm cars when traction comes up on the carpet. (They don't lift their inside tires like the 200mm cars do.) But on lower traction surfaces like most asphalt tracks, the 200mm cars do fine. Both car types on asphalt require softer rear tires than the WGT lilacs. I use pinks for all surfaces.
The CRC cars are popular here, and very affordable. Bodies include McCallister, Protoform, and RJ Speed (who make a very pretty and realistic-looking 962).
We still run 1/10 pan cars at our local track. I have Lemans-style/GTP/prototype bodies on my cars (the one I drive, plus two loaners). I much prefer these bodies both for the realism, and because they look like race cars, not street cars.
While we have enough guys who have resurrected old cars or have purchased new cars to run a "normal" pan class, at the moment we race Breakout because that's what the guys want. During practice I run at full-bore just for fun, and can easily keep up with the faster TC guys, despite not being a "fast guy" myself!
We race the 200mm and 235mm cars together. The 235mm cars are definitely more stable than the 200mm cars when traction comes up on the carpet. (They don't lift their inside tires like the 200mm cars do.) But on lower traction surfaces like most asphalt tracks, the 200mm cars do fine. Both car types on asphalt require softer rear tires than the WGT lilacs. I use pinks for all surfaces.
The CRC cars are popular here, and very affordable. Bodies include McCallister, Protoform, and RJ Speed (who make a very pretty and realistic-looking 962).
09-21-2013, 05:11 AM
#8
Wow, great idea Ed and I'll second the thought. I race oval and onroad. Foam tires are definitely the way to go. Although I can tell you there is a movement within the oval ranks to decrease the size of the rear tires.
I think the RM01 is fantastic but 12th scale simply doesn't fit the needs of most racers.
My club is in the process of starting a new class using 200mm wgt chassis with any available 200mm GTP/LMP body. We're even thinking of offering a higher performance 235mm pro10 type class but with lower power. We're not trying to diminish Pro10 racing but the fact is very few of us have the large,wide tracks needed for a true Pro10 car. The real emphasis is more on scale appearance and fun, sportsman level racing which is what rc racing is in need of. Affordability and Accessibilityare paramount.
Good idea Ed. When it gets rolling, I'll be on board
I think the RM01 is fantastic but 12th scale simply doesn't fit the needs of most racers.
My club is in the process of starting a new class using 200mm wgt chassis with any available 200mm GTP/LMP body. We're even thinking of offering a higher performance 235mm pro10 type class but with lower power. We're not trying to diminish Pro10 racing but the fact is very few of us have the large,wide tracks needed for a true Pro10 car. The real emphasis is more on scale appearance and fun, sportsman level racing which is what rc racing is in need of. Affordability and Accessibilityare paramount.
Good idea Ed. When it gets rolling, I'll be on board
09-21-2013, 11:23 AM
#9
I'd like to suggest (for discussion) the idea of VTA or USGT specs for the electronics. I recently bought a ROAR-legal 21.5 and a "blinky" ESC for less than $100 shipped to my door. I would love for it to be limited to 1s, but I think that minimizing the expenditure that folks would have to make to get into the class to be very important.
Scott
Scott
09-21-2013, 02:06 PM
#10
Thanks
I'd like to suggest (for discussion) the idea of VTA or USGT specs for the electronics. I recently bought a ROAR-legal 21.5 and a "blinky" ESC for less than $100 shipped to my door. I would love for it to be limited to 1s, but I think that minimizing the expenditure that folks would have to make to get into the class to be very important.
Scott
Scott
I agree with NutDriver in regards to the electronics: a non-boosted speed control, 1s batteries and 17.5 or so motors. That way people can use the same speed control & battery setups currently used in Workd GT and 1/12 scale. Spec tires to keeps the costs down too.
The reason i suggested 200mm for car width is because of amount of World GT spec cars on the market as well as the Tamiya GTP cars. Lets not forget also that the Tamiya F1 cars are close to 200mm as well. I know a lot of guys still have their 235mm cars and maybe they could run in a seperate higher power class. The point is that these guys NOT be turned away and instead be welcomed to take part.
In regards to a truly scale Porsche 962, it would be exactly 200mm wide, as the full scale car was 2000mm wide. As far as wheelbase goes, the Tamiya GTP chassis in its middle setting would be almost exactly to scale.
In regards to the 1/12 Porsche RM-01, it is a 956, not a 962. Also, the 956 Tamiya modeled was the thicker nosed, long tail low-downforce LeMans version. And the RJ Speed Porsche 962 (old Bolink mold) was not a bad looking body and actually ran pretty well. It's just not to scale and doesn't due the original justice in terms of capturing the nuances of the original 962's shape.
In regards to Andy's Racing Products, Andy Jacobsen made some KILLER bodies!
I was racing 1/10 pan cars when he first got started. I loved his Mercedes C11, probably his finest 1/10 pan car body. He also made a sweet Jaguar XJR-10 in two versions: short tail with a seperate wing and a longer tail version with a wedge style rear treatment.
09-21-2013, 02:10 PM
#11
[QUOTE=Manny;12562571]Back in the early 90's Andy's bodies made just about every prototype body you could think of! I was a big fan of his 1/12 scale bodies...not just Porsches or Mercedes but Nissans, Kudzu's, Spice, Aston Martins, AAR Toyotas. He also made a bunch of 1/10 (235mm) bodies. Didn't he rerelease the Mercedes C9 or C11 just a few years ago? If he were to resurrect these molds, you'd have all the bodies you would need.
I think the 1/10 C11 was the best 1/10 body he ever made. He did rerelease the C11 a few years ago but I went looking for it recently and couldn't find anything.
I think the 1/10 C11 was the best 1/10 body he ever made. He did rerelease the C11 a few years ago but I went looking for it recently and couldn't find anything.
09-21-2013, 02:17 PM
#12
Wow, great idea Ed and I'll second the thought. I race oval and onroad. Foam tires are definitely the way to go. Although I can tell you there is a movement within the oval ranks to decrease the size of the rear tires.
I think the RM01 is fantastic but 12th scale simply doesn't fit the needs of most racers.
My club is in the process of starting a new class using 200mm wgt chassis with any available 200mm GTP/LMP body. We're even thinking of offering a higher performance 235mm pro10 type class but with lower power. We're not trying to diminish Pro10 racing but the fact is very few of us have the large,wide tracks needed for a true Pro10 car. The real emphasis is more on scale appearance and fun, sportsman level racing which is what rc racing is in need of. Affordability and Accessibilityare paramount.
Good idea Ed. When it gets rolling, I'll be on board
I think the RM01 is fantastic but 12th scale simply doesn't fit the needs of most racers.
My club is in the process of starting a new class using 200mm wgt chassis with any available 200mm GTP/LMP body. We're even thinking of offering a higher performance 235mm pro10 type class but with lower power. We're not trying to diminish Pro10 racing but the fact is very few of us have the large,wide tracks needed for a true Pro10 car. The real emphasis is more on scale appearance and fun, sportsman level racing which is what rc racing is in need of. Affordability and Accessibilityare paramount.
Good idea Ed. When it gets rolling, I'll be on board
09-21-2013, 02:17 PM
#13
Ed,
F104-based cars are 190mm or so. The F103 was 200mm. The current standard for F1 is 21.5, 2s, and blinky ESCs.
What would be interesting (to me, as I already have one) is the 3Racing FGX f1 car with the independent front suspension, but a GTP-type body. Wait, I already have all that stuff. Project??!!
F104-based cars are 190mm or so. The F103 was 200mm. The current standard for F1 is 21.5, 2s, and blinky ESCs.
What would be interesting (to me, as I already have one) is the 3Racing FGX f1 car with the independent front suspension, but a GTP-type body. Wait, I already have all that stuff. Project??!!
09-21-2013, 02:28 PM
#14
I would love to be back to the old GTP cars or the new DTP cars as a class. I really enjoy WGT but the bodies not so much. We've got WGT, RCGT, and USGT...how many different GT classes can the hobby really support? There are a fair amount of GTP bodies out there but from small companies that have little affect on the market as a whole. In order for this to work we need some of the bigger companies to get on board with it. WGT grew not only because it had good support from racers...but because it also had strong support from manufacturers.
09-21-2013, 02:52 PM
#15
What about WGT(P)? Use all of the standard WGT chassis and tires (or some other inclusive formula) and adjust as needed? I don't see a need to reinvent the wheel. Get rid of the 13.5 motors and boosted ESCs and go to 21.5 2s blinky with a different body?
Andy is on Facebook, I believe. Wonder what it would take to get some new bodies pulled?
Andy is on Facebook, I believe. Wonder what it would take to get some new bodies pulled?