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Old 02-26-2014, 01:10 PM   #1906
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Originally Posted by DiscountRCStore View Post
FWIW.. I do know that Schumacher watches the forums closely.. It might be a good time to post some feedback on some of the things you guys would like to see - if another kit was in the works.. Just a thought ..
After driving Mi4's for 3.5 years, I went to Xray instead of getting an Mi5, and have been completely happy with that decision for the last 9 months or so.

Things I could tell as soon as pictures were released:
- Camber link plates: They're expensive for camber link length tuning, they're a pain to wrench on, they're ugly, and they raise the CG.
- Hanging the swaybars off the camber link plates adds even more weight up high and clutters up any wrenching relating to the camber link plates.
- That top deck mounting can't possibly be good for CG height or polar MoI, with all those screws up high on the shock towers.
- I could also tell from pictures it was going to be another heavy car.
- As soon as I saw the video explaining the goals of the top deck, I knew it'd be far, far too flexy for carpet.
- Flexy + High CG = Carpet fail, which has been proven to be true. In the pacific northwest, our carpet season is much longer with many more races than our asphalt season.
- Diff / Spool outdrive slider inserts were an interesting idea, but they're a pain. Go back to blades or steel on steel.
- Even though I almost always run 3* rear toe, I didn't want to have to buy extra arms to try other settings.
- The diffs may be easy to pop out (although I'd be surprised if it's easier than on the Tamiya/Yokomo/Xray/just about everyone else design), but going that route puts a lot of heavy, thick bulkhead material above the diff, which is bad for CG and overall weight, and pushes the shock tower mounting upwards, which combined with the lower shock towers in my opinion makes the car kinda ugly.
- O-ring retained wheel hexes are not as good as clamp-on hexes. They get sloppy over time and allow excessive wheel wobble.

Things I didn't predict, but would keep me away from the car now:
- I thought the C-Hub-less front suspension was a cool idea, but it doesn't seem to have worked out terribly well. Maybe they'll find a way to make it work.
- Slop in the arm mounting
- Seems like they might have missed the mark a bit with steering system geometry and lack of tune-ability.

-Mike
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:29 PM   #1907
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Originally Posted by DiscountRCStore View Post
The brace's we've received have not had the M3x6 screws, only the longer ones.

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I can be a bit of a caveman at times. For days now I have been saying "how the hell does this work" - assuming the stock screws were suppossed to be used! LOL.

Once I saw your post, took me 2 mins. I'm good now.

PS - you may want to add a blurb to your website that says "need additional screws not included" or something to that effect. Just a suggestion, not meant as derogatory at all as you have been very good to me!
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:39 PM   #1908
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I do agree that the car has too much flex by default, maybe they should update with 2.5mm but slightly harder chassis. or harder upper deck. although mi5 claimed to be full length flex, it isnt real full length because part of the upper deck still attached to motor mount while other car doesn't.

changing toe require taking off the arm from chassis is too much pain, I prefer it is on the hub which is easier to change yet does not require redesign the the thing and upgradable for current mi5.

the c-less hub should deal away with the bearing, they failed eventually because it is a high stress area and the size isn't always carried by LHS.

other than this, I am too newb to tell what need to be changed yet. may come out with something some time.
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:07 AM   #1909
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Well I've been racing the Schumacher brand on and off since about "97" and the Mi5 is by far the best car I think they have produced. I would however like to see them lower the CG of the car and lighten it up. I think that combined with the flex of the chassis makes it roll and twist too much in high grip situations...thus making the car react slower and feel sluggish. I love the adjustability of the car but things like the camber link plates and the arms (charging toe in) need to be simplified. Making changes at the track where time is a factor limits what can be tested. I think using the 2 part graphite arms is good, I wish they would come out with arms with different flex characteristics. Also making the arm insert, like the Wild Thing inserts, with different shock mounting positions would be nice. An alloy chassis may cut down the flex but for people who crash a lot this may cause tweak issues…???

Just my .01 cent
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Old 02-27-2014, 05:43 AM   #1910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
After driving Mi4's for 3.5 years, I went to Xray instead of getting an Mi5, and have been completely happy with that decision for the last 9 months or so.

Things I could tell as soon as pictures were released:
- Camber link plates: They're expensive for camber link length tuning, they're a pain to wrench on, they're ugly, and they raise the CG.
But, they do allow for much more of a fine tune on link location. The only other car out there with such a fine adjustment is the Sakura Xi, and that's only on the inner link, and not the outer as well.

Quote:
- Hanging the swaybars off the camber link plates adds even more weight up high and clutters up any wrenching relating to the camber link plates.
The mounting could be tidied up for sure, maybe off the bulkheads would be neater, but looking at the car it's bloody hard to see how/where.

Quote:
- That top deck mounting can't possibly be good for CG height or polar MoI, with all those screws up high on the shock towers.
To be quite frank, that's a bloody hard call to make. I'm not going to say it's lower, but you also have to bare in mind there is only one screw on the tower mounting vs the two of most other cars, and the towers are also lower than most other long shock cars anyway, due to the shocks mounting under the arms. And I'm going to state this now, I'm not sold AT ALL on short shocks. Nothing I have seen of them so far has convince me that they are any better than conventional shocks, especially on bumpy outdoor tracks. The slight CoG gains are outweighed, IMO, by the compromise in damping ability vs conventional shocks.

Quote:
- I could also tell from pictures it was going to be another heavy car.
it's a Schuey, what do you expect although it's not as far off as some others, and still easily possible to get it well below race weight for balancing.

Quote:
- As soon as I saw the video explaining the goals of the top deck, I knew it'd be far, far too flexy for carpet.
Honestly, whilst won't disagree in kit form the kit is probably too flexy, there are options out there to help rectify that. The 2mm stiff chassis is both considerably less flexible than kit AND lowers the whole car 0.5mm, as a big benefit for CoG. Then there are also the chassis braces, and the uncut arms.

Quote:
- Flexy + High CG = Carpet fail, which has been proven to be true. In the pacific northwest, our carpet season is much longer with many more races than our asphalt season.
see above. I won't doubt that a stiffer still chassis plate wouldn't be a benefit for super traction, but then plenty of other chassis out there also use different plates for different track conditions. So that isn't a Schuey exclusive problem.

Quote:
- Diff / Spool outdrive slider inserts were an interesting idea, but they're a pain. Go back to blades or steel on steel.
sorry, but that's a pile of tosh. Blades are the worst thing to use. With the sliders, the whole plastic surface is supported by the out drive, and that helps massively to lengthen the life span of the sliders. I know for a fact I would have gone though A LOT more blades (and probably outdrives as the blades failed!) given I run mod only. The sliders are fine thanks!

Quote:
- Even though I almost always run 3* rear toe, I didn't want to have to buy extra arms to try other settings.
How do you suggest this is done? Changing toe on the hub has a different effect to changing on the arm/pin, so simply switching to hub toe is not, IMO, a better solution. So the other option is to alter it on the chassis plate... Yeah, ok..?!

Quote:
- The diffs may be easy to pop out (although I'd be surprised if it's easier than on the Tamiya/Yokomo/Xray/just about everyone else design), but going that route puts a lot of heavy, thick bulkhead material above the diff, which is bad for CG and overall weight, and pushes the shock tower mounting upwards, which combined with the lower shock towers in my opinion makes the car kinda ugly.
see my previous answer about the shock mounting.

Quote:
- O-ring retained wheel hexes are not as good as clamp-on hexes. They get sloppy over time and allow excessive wheel wobble.
Do agree on this one.. Screw clamp hexes would be a big bonus!

Things I didn't predict, but would keep me away from the car now:
Quote:
- I thought the C-Hub-less front suspension was a cool idea, but it doesn't seem to have worked out terribly well. Maybe they'll find a way to make it work.
Sorry, it does work. Yes, there can be a little slop (but hell, Tamiyas didnt do so bad with it built in!), but in almost 5months of running the car, I've broken one flanged bearing... And that was from me cocking up reinstalling it into the car. Personally feel with the bearings it gives THE free-est steering available.

Quote:
- Slop in the arm mounting
yes, this is an issue. The plastic cups need a bit of a step up in quality.

Quote:
- Seems like they might have missed the mark a bit with steering system geometry and lack of tune-ability.
-Mike
yes and no. Again, the steering plates are a bonus, and allow for much better fine tune on the outer position... But I will agree the lack of adjustment on the rack itself (and the standard kit positions and plates are twitchy) is not great. Having said that, with the modded parts on my cars, I haven't had any need to adjust the Ackerman, and usually play more with bump steer than anything else.

To personally add some thing I would like to see.

- more wheelbase adjustment, specifically on the front. Having it only on the rear doesn't help if you want to keep the length the same, and only move the static weight fore/aft
- Aforementioned steering rack adjustments
- the option to use thicker top decks, without having to mod the motor mount. Having said that, it looks like this is a possibility based on the motor mount that Martin's car that was photographed at the first ETS.
- I would also personally like the motor mounts front top deck mount to be centralised... Having it connecting to the top deck on one side is a real annoyance for me. Shouldn't be too hard to make it a T piece, or even up for the centre of the mount.
- rear arm plastics. PLEASE make them so the two mounting holes are different, for different tuning options of the shock positions. Always thought it weird that that they made the two holes in the same place, and didn't utilise the fact the plastics could be run on left or right side to add that extra tuning option..
- and as more of a quality/ease of use/looks thing.. I'm a BIG fan of press fit nut inserts in carbon parts. No need for extra nuts, and make screwing and unscrewing balls just as easy as alloy. Yes the part would be more expensive, but worth it IMO for the step up in quality (and I have already modded my cars to use them! )

Ed
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Last edited by TryHard; 02-27-2014 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:14 AM   #1911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igetbombed View Post
PS - you may want to add a blurb to your website that says "need additional screws not included" or something to that effect. Just a suggestion, not meant as derogatory at all as you have been very good to me!
No worries at all..! In fact we've just updated that; we can all benefit from some constructive criticism from time to time.. Thanks for the suggestion..!



@ Ed - Very insightful and dead on, IMO.. The only further suggestion we would add (as we began to explore this ourselves) would be to do something like an eccentric insert(s) for the arms vs a hard mounted ball. You could easily adjust rear toe, track width, front arm sweep, and possibly even wheelbase using a single set of arms and well designed, replaceable inserts ( I think Awesomatix has something like this )



Thanks everyone for the input.. keep it coming..!

..p
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:29 AM   #1912
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No worries at all..! In fact we've just updated that; we can all benefit from some constructive criticism from time to time.. Thanks for the suggestion..!



@ Ed - Very insightful and dead on, IMO.. The only further suggestion we would add (as we began to explore this ourselves) would be to do something like an eccentric insert(s) for the arms vs a hard mounted ball. You could easily adjust rear toe, track width, front arm sweep, and possibly even wheelbase using a single set of arms and well designed, replaceable inserts ( I think Awesomatix has something like this )



Thanks for the everyone for the input.. keep it coming..!

..p
Ed, I also agree. Like you, I have been driving Schumachers a long time, (since 1999). This is by far the best Schuey I have driven. A few tweaks here and there will make it better.

Schumacher has always listened to the drivers who have ideas to try and make things better. I am sure they are listening now.

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Old 03-01-2014, 01:10 AM   #1913
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Ran the car last night out the box with kit settings,it was bloody awesome,so easy to drive,and fast!roll on sun and Tarmac
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:17 AM   #1914
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Andy Moore is sitting 5th in the A main at the Gran Caneria ETS race. I don't see Martin Hofer's name in the Expert class. Did he miss this race?
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:22 AM   #1915
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Andy Moore is sitting 5th in the A main at the Gran Caneria ETS race. I don't see Martin Hofer's name in the Expert class. Did he miss this race?
Did I miss something? Doesn't he run for Hot Bodies?
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:28 PM   #1916
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Andy Moore is sitting 5th in the A main at the Gran Caneria ETS race. I don't see Martin Hofer's name in the Expert class. Did he miss this race?
Moorespeed does race for HB, so not sure te point there.
Martin isn't at this round, and neither are any of the rest of the Schumacher team, which is a shame, as they had been good to see them racing in the ETS there the past few years... Although not sure you can call the track conditions this year 'raceable'!
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:52 PM   #1917
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Andy Moore is sitting 5th in the A main at the Gran Caneria ETS race. I don't see Martin Hofer's name in the Expert class. Did he miss this race?
OOOPS! sorry about that. A. Moore does not drive for Schumacher. Sorry,
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:14 AM   #1918
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Well on carpet I run mid motor, rubber tyres/tires. Are carpet is low to med grip, so we need a fair bit of flex,and all the guys that run the MI5 at the club think it is great.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:34 PM   #1919
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My ride at ROAR Nats today. Fun times!
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Old 03-03-2014, 03:36 AM   #1920
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When u modify the shocks to be 10.5mm long, how do u do it? Cut the bottom of shaft and cut ballcup? Or do i need to use other springcups (schumacher alu?)
What are the benefits of running the shocks at 10.5mm?
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