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Old 01-01-2016, 11:10 PM   #1171
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ok guys.... looking to get back into TCS again this year.

Am I crazy wanting a TRF101 instead of a TRF102?

Trying to read this forum, everyone has a different opinion, was looking for a summed differences in the cars abilities.

Thanks!
Chris
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:32 PM   #1172
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ok guys.... looking to get back into TCS again this year.

Am I crazy wanting a TRF101 instead of a TRF102?

Trying to read this forum, everyone has a different opinion, was looking for a summed differences in the cars abilities.

Thanks!
Chris
Short answer is yes.

The 102 is smoother over bumps with better mid corner rotation. On asphalt it also makes more grip. The t-bar cars ARE better on pavement. I had 101 and liked the car very much on carpet but it does have a few flaws. The included front end setup has insufficient front uptravel adjustment and has durability issues. The rear suspension of both models is of equivalent durability. The 101 chassis is too stiff for asphalt and the 102 chassis is a bit soft for higher grip carpet.
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Old 01-02-2016, 12:09 AM   #1173
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102 over 101 is the ticket for me on Tamiya's asphalt.

Possibly even better than my other very reliable T bar car, the 104 X1 (converted from an F60 104 kit).
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:27 AM   #1174
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That's the thing... I will be running my F1 primarily on Carpet 99% of the time.

decisions, decisions.... another dilemma is to get the Carbon Front suspension or not with either model.
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Old 01-02-2016, 09:07 AM   #1175
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That's the thing... I will be running my F1 primarily on Carpet 99% of the time.

decisions, decisions.... another dilemma is to get the Carbon Front suspension or not with either model.
Kevin CBR aka Panda kills it on carpet with his Tamiya WGP F1, another T plate car.

RobK also kills the carpet scene but not sure what his Tamiya of choice is, he destroys with all of them.

I hear mtveten is a carpet cleaner with his Tamiyas too.

Bill Jeric (Tuning Haus) ran his TRF 102 very strong on the rug here but is much quicker with his new VBC.

They will chime in I'm sure.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:41 PM   #1176
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F1 Flow Chart:

TCS racing?
If yes, see below, If no skip directly to "Buy XRAY"

Do You race on carpet? If no skip directly to "Buy TRF102"

If yes, this is where things start getting interesting.

F104 t bar cars - you need to really look at the F104X1 (or a car optioned to the same spec) or the F104W GP. The X1 has fiberglass chassis parts which actually can be a good thing. It makes a little more traction and has a little more weight down low, which again is not all bad. I have witnessed several brutal beatdowns on high grip carpet with this car. Pretty well optioned if you can get a kit/car. Really the only things you may want are the carbon axle, and clamping hub.

The WGP car is very similar, however you will need to buy the standard F104 front end plastic parts and shorter turnbuckles as the car is an older "wide" 200mm car with the included F103 front end parts. That being said, it is the most well optioned F104 in my opinion. All pod parts are aluminum, chassis is graphite, it includes the aluminum front knuckles, and the t plate I like better. The t plate has a different flex point which I think makes a little more traction. You may also fit any of the other F104 t bars as well, noting that the standard F104 cars cannot use the WGP's tbar due to the larger chassis opening required. Last time I checked you can still find this car for under $200 USD at rc-art online from Japan.

These cars don't turn in quite as hard as a TRF102, which has a much thinner chassis and flexes more in general. That's not always a bad thing, but I have always found that you need to keep a good balance in the car's handling to make it driveable. The car will feel either a little dead off the center of the wheel or it will get a little unstable if you want a steering machine. This is not a concern if you are only racing other Tamiya cars but you will be off the pace vs. Xrays or cars with a similar layout. (off topic excursion coming...) In my experience, and that of even other guys who I feel are better drivers than I am, you won't get the ultimate pace of the other brand chassis. I have been to non TCS races where we threw the kitchen sink at it and in the end you just make the car hard to drive trying to keep up.

The TRF101 has some nice features, including the ability to move the links around and has a little more flexible chassis than the F104V2. Oddly enough, I always had the feeling that it accelerated much better than the other cars in the series, why I don't know. I haven't tried to measue the pod or anything to see if there is some difference, but whatever.

I really don't care for the front end. There is little adjustment and the design is less than optimal to use what should be good features. If you let the upper arm flex too much, the kingpins can pop out. Ride height can be hard to set where you want it. No caster adjustment, like the normal F104 front end ( well not really true since you get more caster the less camber you run). It actually would have been super simple to add to the design via a couple extra holes in the upper arm, but that's neither here nor there. It's simple, and camber is easy to adjust to the 2 positions offered, but on carpet you wind up searching for steering most of the time. At least the F104 front end lets you have 6 camber settings and the ability to add dynamic caster like a 1/12 car with different height ball studs. The more stable handling has seemed to work for some on asphalt. Trying a set of the normal F104 upper arm parts might make this car a little better, but I have always liked the feel of the t bar's more stable launch out of a corner vs Tamiya's link cars.

Getting to the TRF102, the biggest flaw is the chassis if you are going to race carpet. I have gotten this car to within a couple tenths of my Xray car on carpet, which is pretty good since I feel like the Tamiya front end does not produce the steering of the Xray. You need to strap the battery to the chassis and also use double sided tape to make the battery a "stressed member" to help stiffen the car up for carpet. Otherwise, every corner is an adventure if traction is up. For non TCS racing you could fashion an upper deck from scratch or cut up F104 parts, as the holes line up. This is semi effective, but you will get crushed by Xrays and their clones anyway. The other problem is that a lot of the steering is actually produced by chassis flex just behind the servo, so you can't just make it a tank.

I think the TRF102 is probably going to work out for carpet if you use the battery to get the car stiffer. It does have a good amount of steering that just needs to be tamed. Work still needs to be done to get it 100% dialed for carpet, in my opinion. Otherwise, I would go with an F104WGP, which just has a different feel, and can be really fast as well, and has a lot of good setup knowledge out there.
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Old 01-03-2016, 10:22 AM   #1177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
F1 Flow Chart:

TCS racing?
If yes, see below, If no skip directly to "Buy XRAY"

Do You race on carpet? If no skip directly to "Buy TRF102"

If yes, this is where things start getting interesting.

.
THANK YOU for the fantastic summation!
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Old 01-06-2016, 11:39 AM   #1178
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Building my first F1 chassis (101W with narrow Front end), and have a few questions. This will be run on TCS tires, and primarily on an asphalt TCS track, 5 minutes from my house.

1. Noticed that there is some play in the spur gear, and it seems to wobble a bit. Is this normal and will it center itself when meshed with spur?

2. Front axles: Inline with kingpins or behind?

3. Gearing: 24 pinion and 96 spur that came with kit seems high. What are most people running for gearing with a 25.5 (Reedy) on a 120x60 asphalt track, with 6-8 corners, and approx. 250-300ft racing line and turning approx. 10-11 second laps. I know this is very subject to track layout, grip level, etc, but just looking for a starting point.

4: Bearings - without disassembling car and measuring each one individually, is there a list of bearing sizes available anywhere?

5: Servo placement: Can you use a standard sized servo, in the laydown position, like a low profile servo, instead of upright?

I'm sure there are more questions, and I will re-post when I think of them. Thanks in advance, and I can't wait to drive this thing!!
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Last edited by djensen623; 01-08-2016 at 08:04 AM. Reason: Added #5
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Old 01-10-2016, 02:45 PM   #1179
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Hi

1. Yes

2. I run them behind, but try what works for you

3. sorry, no advice here, I am running 17,5T

4: check this, there is a list of sizes http://www.fasteddybearings.com/tami...d-bearing-kit/

5: Geometry of steering links would be .... unusuall
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Last edited by Acid_CZ; 01-10-2016 at 02:45 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 01-10-2016, 02:50 PM   #1180
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Where do you run your shorty batteries? Forward or rear? Trying to mount electronics once and for all.

Also, does everyone use fiber tape for battery securing? Anyone double sided tape them in?
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:12 PM   #1181
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I run them in front, ESC behind.
I use tape + silicon tubes on side posts.
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:06 AM   #1182
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To those still have/run a TRF101, I'm still running mine at our nats with "mixed" success

I qualified 4th in the last 2 nationals, fastlap is about 0.4s (for 21sec/lap) off the best ones (Roche, Serpent,...) I got the car running pretty well on asphalt just lacks a bit of steering response around the neutral range which I should be able to sort out soon. I noticed it after a fellow racer & myself switched cars (roche), he was about 0.4 sec a lap quicker with my car than I was and I was doing pretty equal laptimes with his roche compared to my own TRF. So I need to adjust the driving style more than I need another car

Most recent update, the exotek upper arms for easier camber (-1)/caster (6) adjustments. The rest is box stock with Protoform 15 body and ETS spoilers.
Basic setup is really soft, I use Ride Big bore soft (red) springs in front, trailing axle setup, Asso green sides, 7k - 10k in the damper tube, center spring I'm still trying to figure out, at the moment I'm using the stock soft one. Tyres are Ride XR. Ride height 4mm front / 4 to 4.5 in rear with very little pod droop 0.5 to 0.75mm. Shorty in front of chassis. 21.5turn ETS combo.

As not many setups can be found for this car, please share your hints/tips/tricks... together with setup, adjusting my driving style to F1 a bit more should help me close that 0.4s/lap gap a bit more, the rest is plain luck in the finals

Happy racing!
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Old 06-06-2016, 09:28 AM   #1183
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Try inline front axles
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:44 PM   #1184
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Hi. I lost my instructions for the TRF101 Carbon Sus Parts Set. does anyone have a PDF of them? Thanks in advance.
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:09 PM   #1185
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Could be a good idea.


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Try inline front axles
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