52LikesLet's Talk Modified
03-21-2013, 08:09 AM
#31
I'd love any additional insight on how to use equipment to make mod more approachable. Obviously trigger time is critical, but anything we can do otherwise to make the transition less painful is certainly welcome knowledge.
I've been eyeing the Reedy 6.0. My SP 5.5 feels good but still maybe a bit more punched than I'm ready for.
I've been eyeing the Reedy 6.0. My SP 5.5 feels good but still maybe a bit more punched than I'm ready for.
03-21-2013, 08:17 AM
#32
I find the 5.5 easier to drive on smaller tracks than 5.0 and lower. When talking to Burch last year he mentioned that he felt the .0 winds made more bottom end. I have noticed this to a point, but always attributed this to the fact that a 4.0 is faster than a 4.5 and a 4.5 faster than a 5.0 and so on.
I have run 5.0s but not in the same brand, so it is totally like comparing apples to oranges. From my experience though, a 5.5 can be more than fast enough to keep up with the faster winds. A lot of it has to do with the type of ESC you are running. For example, you can't achieve the same feel and adjustment with an LRP that you can with a Hobbywing or Orion. Neither can you do this with the new Reventon ESC.
A 5.5 needs earlier boost start and boost end than let's say a 5.0 or 4.5 to get the initial throttle reponse and less lag. It also needs more timing. The result can be something much closer to a properly tuned 13.5 blinky feel up to about the 50-60% power range, where the 13.5 dies out and the 5.5 starts coming alive. On short straights, it can more than hold it's own against 4.0's and 4.5's. many times at our local club people that get worked with my properly tuned 5.5 come over and tell me that they need more motor. When I tell them I am running a 5.5 they all pee a little in disgust.
Ultimately it is about feel and how fast you can get around the track. If you can be 3-4 tenths faster with your mod car over the really fast stock guys, (in this case, you) you should be in the vicinity of what the fast Mod guys would be doing. After this it is just a matter of replicating lap after lap the same thing and trying to run your average lap to within 2-3 tenths. If you can do it better, which I have seen done, do it.
I have run 5.0s but not in the same brand, so it is totally like comparing apples to oranges. From my experience though, a 5.5 can be more than fast enough to keep up with the faster winds. A lot of it has to do with the type of ESC you are running. For example, you can't achieve the same feel and adjustment with an LRP that you can with a Hobbywing or Orion. Neither can you do this with the new Reventon ESC.
A 5.5 needs earlier boost start and boost end than let's say a 5.0 or 4.5 to get the initial throttle reponse and less lag. It also needs more timing. The result can be something much closer to a properly tuned 13.5 blinky feel up to about the 50-60% power range, where the 13.5 dies out and the 5.5 starts coming alive. On short straights, it can more than hold it's own against 4.0's and 4.5's. many times at our local club people that get worked with my properly tuned 5.5 come over and tell me that they need more motor. When I tell them I am running a 5.5 they all pee a little in disgust.
Ultimately it is about feel and how fast you can get around the track. If you can be 3-4 tenths faster with your mod car over the really fast stock guys, (in this case, you) you should be in the vicinity of what the fast Mod guys would be doing. After this it is just a matter of replicating lap after lap the same thing and trying to run your average lap to within 2-3 tenths. If you can do it better, which I have seen done, do it.
Can we talk about the motor choice? Maybe a little bit of science instead of emotion!
There is a reason why the fast mod guys week in and week out are running X.0 wind motors. In 1/12th scale it is almost always a 4.0 and in TC a very normal selection is for a 5.0.
Are the full turn motors smoother and if so why is that?
I have been running a Reedy 5.5 and it feels pretty fast but not ridiculous with middle timing. Would a 5.0 be easier to drive than a 5.5 in TC?
There is a reason why the fast mod guys week in and week out are running X.0 wind motors. In 1/12th scale it is almost always a 4.0 and in TC a very normal selection is for a 5.0.
Are the full turn motors smoother and if so why is that?
I have been running a Reedy 5.5 and it feels pretty fast but not ridiculous with middle timing. Would a 5.0 be easier to drive than a 5.5 in TC?
03-21-2013, 08:18 AM
#33
Can we talk about the motor choice? Maybe a little bit of science instead of emotion!
There is a reason why the fast mod guys week in and week out are running X.0 wind motors. In 1/12th scale it is almost always a 4.0 and in TC a very normal selection is for a 5.0.
Are the full turn motors smoother and if so why is that?
I have been running a Reedy 5.5 and it feels pretty fast but not ridiculous with middle timing. Would a 5.0 be easier to drive than a 5.5 in TC?
There is a reason why the fast mod guys week in and week out are running X.0 wind motors. In 1/12th scale it is almost always a 4.0 and in TC a very normal selection is for a 5.0.
Are the full turn motors smoother and if so why is that?
I have been running a Reedy 5.5 and it feels pretty fast but not ridiculous with middle timing. Would a 5.0 be easier to drive than a 5.5 in TC?
03-21-2013, 08:31 AM
#34
When I first went shopping for mod motors for 12th scale, Ehrlich told me to get 3.5 to 4.0. Anything less, you will get run over. Todd, in our club, runs a 5.0 without a lot of turbo. He runs consistently, but does lack that little extra at that split second when opportunity allows. I am sure that it gives him that extra opportunity to "catch it" should he do something not quite so right. That said, I have no regret working with my 4.0's. My 3.5 sits in the box waiting for the day to put on my big boy pants. I've run it a few times, it makes the straight a way a little shorter, but I over shoot more stuff in the infield. I've never been one to use expo. I've viewed it as a temporary crutch. It certainly does work for those use it properly. So I work with the esc, tweak on the start rpms, delay, slope rate, punch level, etc. I've tweaked it to the point that a 4.0 is not scary anymore, but still capable of pulling the front tires up if your not careful. Josh speaks of wheel spin & air gap.... makes me realize just how much more there is to learn.
03-21-2013, 09:13 AM
#36
Yes, Reedy motors are smoother and don't make as much power as other motors. LRPs have a violent bottom end. Orion/SP have crazy top speed. Hobbywing XERUN motors are the Fastest while still being smooth that I have run though. I have no idea why they are so fast, but to run a 4.5 from HW I have to run higher gauge wire (10AWG) less boost, turbo and gear than with a Reedy 4.5 or a Team Powers 4.0 to get the car to go 5 minutes on a large outdoor track without the wires coming unsoldered at the battery terminals on the ESC. If anyone that has seen my car run with this motor at Porter is reading this, they can attest to this.
03-21-2013, 09:26 AM
#37
Suspended
I am really excited to see that people are really wanting to step up into modified. We convinced our fastest stock guys here in Dallas to go mod and now we have a mod class. The guys that normally wouldnt want to race against us now have the stock class. I know for a fact that we have gotten way better from making the transition and I think most people after 6 months or so will be able to say the same thing. The transition can be expensive at first but once the driver gets used to the speed, costs normalize to around the spec classes. I guess what I'm trying to say is, convince your local fast guys to step into modified, especially if they are nationally fast and racing at your track.
03-21-2013, 12:04 PM
#38
artwork - My LRP 4.5 octa has a huge low-mid hit that other motors don't have. The power just comes in low on those it seems. That could be part of why your LRP seems to rip so hard compared to others.
03-21-2013, 12:26 PM
#39
Modified makes me smile. When I first ran my 3.5 in my 1/12 scale it was an eye-opener, "so THIS is how a car should accelerate..." was my thought process. It felt a million times more violent than boosted 13.5, and swapping from 17.5 blinky is like going from chocolate milk to straight tequila. Most fun I ever had wheeling a toy car.
03-21-2013, 12:30 PM
#40
I am really excited to see that people are really wanting to step up into modified. We convinced our fastest stock guys here in Dallas to go mod and now we have a mod class. The guys that normally wouldnt want to race against us now have the stock class. I know for a fact that we have gotten way better from making the transition and I think most people after 6 months or so will be able to say the same thing. The transition can be expensive at first but once the driver gets used to the speed, costs normalize to around the spec classes. I guess what I'm trying to say is, convince your local fast guys to step into modified, especially if they are nationally fast and racing at your track.
03-21-2013, 12:53 PM
#43
I am really excited to see that people are really wanting to step up into modified. We convinced our fastest stock guys here in Dallas to go mod and now we have a mod class. The guys that normally wouldnt want to race against us now have the stock class. I know for a fact that we have gotten way better from making the transition and I think most people after 6 months or so will be able to say the same thing. The transition can be expensive at first but once the driver gets used to the speed, costs normalize to around the spec classes. I guess what I'm trying to say is, convince your local fast guys to step into modified, especially if they are nationally fast and racing at your track.
03-21-2013, 02:32 PM
#45
Suspended
If you are talking about M&M, then I would gear at a 26/116. Thats what I geared at last year when I came down there and won that EOS race. You man need to throw some timing at it in the speed control since you guys are using softer tires than the spec tire that we used.