Foam vs Rubber Tires
04-29-2005, 08:52 PM
#76
Originally posted by JKA
Yep. So who cares about the rest of the world... run foams.
The point was that realism is no reason to run rubbers. The realism went out the window when we started running ELECTRIC cars INDOORS on CARPET. lol
What about an average track on the WV/Ohio border that gets about 40 racers each week? Thats where I run. And for the most part you have to pull out all the stops to win. Rubber is too expensive for extremely competitive racers.
The Novak Cyclone TC2 esc was specifically designed for TC racing. Should we mandate it or allow the GTX? Gotta move on when better things come along.... like foam tires.
And BTW, the multi ring foam tires (among others) are specifically designed for TC racing as well.
Wasn't me, but rather a new racer. The following week he tried foams and chunked one. He was happy though because he could still run the chunked foam.
**********
I just watched a video clip from the LRP race. Its a rubber tire race. I was amazed at how many wrecks I saw. Much more than I'm used to seeing in foam tire racing.
I do like the fact that, since people are more likely to make mistakes with rubber tires, 5 minute racing isn't the typical "one mistake and you are out" type of racing. I'll give you rubber lovers that much!
Yep. So who cares about the rest of the world... run foams.
The point was that realism is no reason to run rubbers. The realism went out the window when we started running ELECTRIC cars INDOORS on CARPET. lol
What about an average track on the WV/Ohio border that gets about 40 racers each week? Thats where I run. And for the most part you have to pull out all the stops to win. Rubber is too expensive for extremely competitive racers.
The Novak Cyclone TC2 esc was specifically designed for TC racing. Should we mandate it or allow the GTX? Gotta move on when better things come along.... like foam tires.
And BTW, the multi ring foam tires (among others) are specifically designed for TC racing as well.Wasn't me, but rather a new racer. The following week he tried foams and chunked one. He was happy though because he could still run the chunked foam.
**********
I just watched a video clip from the LRP race. Its a rubber tire race. I was amazed at how many wrecks I saw. Much more than I'm used to seeing in foam tire racing.
I do like the fact that, since people are more likely to make mistakes with rubber tires, 5 minute racing isn't the typical "one mistake and you are out" type of racing. I'll give you rubber lovers that much!
-Is your track indoor carpet? This thread is about rubber vs. foam on asphalt.
-TC2 vs. GTX is a poor example. According to your theory of "move on with technology", just b/c those foams are specifically designed for TC doesn't mean we should run them.
-I'm sure he had a smile on his face after he tapped a pipe and realized that he gets to go into the shop to buy a new pair of tires. Then he gets to true them down the identical size of the old pair.
04-29-2005, 09:01 PM
#77
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKA
[B]Yep. So who cares about the rest of the world... run foams.
The point was that realism is no reason to run rubbers. The realism went out the window when we started running ELECTRIC cars INDOORS on CARPET. lol
What about an average track on the WV/Ohio border that gets about 40 racers each week? Thats where I run. And for the most part you have to pull out all the stops to win. Rubber is too expensive for extremely competitive racers.
The Novak Cyclone TC2 esc was specifically designed for TC racing. Should we mandate it or allow the GTX? Gotta move on when better things come along.... like foam tires. And BTW, the multi ring foam tires (among others) are specifically designed for TC racing as well.
Wasn't me, but rather a new racer. The following week he tried foams and chunked one. He was happy though because he could still run the chunked foam.
**********
I just watched a video clip from the LRP race. Its a rubber tire race. I was amazed at how many wrecks I saw. Much more than I'm used to seeing in foam tire racing.
dbl. post\
[B]Yep. So who cares about the rest of the world... run foams.
The point was that realism is no reason to run rubbers. The realism went out the window when we started running ELECTRIC cars INDOORS on CARPET. lol
What about an average track on the WV/Ohio border that gets about 40 racers each week? Thats where I run. And for the most part you have to pull out all the stops to win. Rubber is too expensive for extremely competitive racers.
The Novak Cyclone TC2 esc was specifically designed for TC racing. Should we mandate it or allow the GTX? Gotta move on when better things come along.... like foam tires.
And BTW, the multi ring foam tires (among others) are specifically designed for TC racing as well.Wasn't me, but rather a new racer. The following week he tried foams and chunked one. He was happy though because he could still run the chunked foam.
**********
I just watched a video clip from the LRP race. Its a rubber tire race. I was amazed at how many wrecks I saw. Much more than I'm used to seeing in foam tire racing.
dbl. post\
04-29-2005, 09:08 PM
#78
Originally posted by fastolfart
We should run realistic paint schemes on the bodies instead of the fantastic art work that can be seen.
Why don't we enforce a true 1/10 scale weight limit on the cars we race, (150 Kg's)
Cars should always race with numbers and interior with driver figures.
Drivers and pit crew should wear fire proof driving suits and crach helmets like the real thing while racing
Why don't we limit the cars to true scale speeds of the real cars.
Now thats heading down the realistic route.
When you race at the top to win world championships or sheep stations, money is no object.
A question for my own information and all that have this happen
why do i find that when I run rubber tyres, (includes pre mounts) when the tyre is mounted as true as possiable, after a few runs they actualy go out of round, particularly noticeable where the belt joins are ????
For those who haven't been to a professional race meet, you still need a tyre truer for rubber tyres to scuff off the mould joins and to get the tyre as round as possiable when new.
I am not beeing negative to rubber tyre users, as I run both types of tyre regularly.
We should run realistic paint schemes on the bodies instead of the fantastic art work that can be seen.
Why don't we enforce a true 1/10 scale weight limit on the cars we race, (150 Kg's)
Cars should always race with numbers and interior with driver figures.
Drivers and pit crew should wear fire proof driving suits and crach helmets like the real thing while racing
Why don't we limit the cars to true scale speeds of the real cars.
Now thats heading down the realistic route.
When you race at the top to win world championships or sheep stations, money is no object.
A question for my own information and all that have this happen
why do i find that when I run rubber tyres, (includes pre mounts) when the tyre is mounted as true as possiable, after a few runs they actualy go out of round, particularly noticeable where the belt joins are ????
For those who haven't been to a professional race meet, you still need a tyre truer for rubber tyres to scuff off the mould joins and to get the tyre as round as possiable when new.
I am not beeing negative to rubber tyre users, as I run both types of tyre regularly.
-What does "money is no object" mean? And why is money no object for the racers at a sheep station?
-If your talking in "scale" terms. Then a hat and t-shirt would be the scale version of a helmet and fire suit.
-They go out of round b/c you hit things.
Last edited by Pro4Capece; 04-29-2005 at 09:19 PM.
04-29-2005, 09:55 PM
#79
Racing for sheep stations is a cliche from down under,
means your racing for nothing.
Check your own bank balance on how much you spend when you want to race at a big meeting, or don't you race above the average club day.
It always amazes me that the people who claim realism about tyres, don't want to go the hole hog.
Though Protofrom do make good race bodies, they still don't represent the realism that you can get from a Tamiya body for example.
BTW, how many real sedan race cars have a rear wing that covers half the boot (read trunk)
definately not to scale.
Nope, talking about the wear marks that accur around the belt joins.
And yes, i do hit things, but thats not the wear i am talking about, when I hit things with foam, I don't chunk them.
PS. My post was a little sarcastic, but I thought I would try to get a point across about realism of our hobby
means your racing for nothing.
Check your own bank balance on how much you spend when you want to race at a big meeting, or don't you race above the average club day.
It always amazes me that the people who claim realism about tyres, don't want to go the hole hog.
It took Dave at Protoform dozens of molds untill ROAR thought the CTS-V was race worthy.
BTW, how many real sedan race cars have a rear wing that covers half the boot (read trunk)
definately not to scale.
-They go out of round b/c you hit things
And yes, i do hit things, but thats not the wear i am talking about, when I hit things with foam, I don't chunk them.
PS. My post was a little sarcastic, but I thought I would try to get a point across about realism of our hobby
04-29-2005, 10:53 PM
#80
regarding realism, dont forget we need to get rid of the 4wd configuration and put a 6 speed tranny on the electric sedans.
, and put the motor in the front of the car.
LOL
, and put the motor in the front of the car.
LOL
04-30-2005, 06:34 AM
#81
Originally posted by Pro4Capece
Since I enjoy this argument so much, I will respond:
-Is your track indoor carpet? This thread is about rubber vs. foam on asphalt.
-TC2 vs. GTX is a poor example. According to your theory of "move on with technology", just b/c those foams are specifically designed for TC doesn't mean we should run them.
-I'm sure he had a smile on his face after he tapped a pipe and realized that he gets to go into the shop to buy a new pair of tires. Then he gets to true them down the identical size of the old pair.
Since I enjoy this argument so much, I will respond:
-Is your track indoor carpet? This thread is about rubber vs. foam on asphalt.
-TC2 vs. GTX is a poor example. According to your theory of "move on with technology", just b/c those foams are specifically designed for TC doesn't mean we should run them.
-I'm sure he had a smile on his face after he tapped a pipe and realized that he gets to go into the shop to buy a new pair of tires. Then he gets to true them down the identical size of the old pair.
There is an outdoor asphalt track that we run foams on about an hour and a half away. It regularly gets up to a track temp of about 130F on a nice summer's day. The races run all day and the mains are under the lights at night when the track temp is back down to 85F or lower.
Be honest... do you (and you too Gary) feel that rubber tires would be less expensive in these types of conditions? I personally do not know because I've never tried rubbers there, but it would seem to me that if you ran a conrol tire (ie TO27) that it would be too soft and blister or wear significantly during the high heat of day and you would need a new pair by evening if not sooner. Or if you allowed different compounds I would think you would need seperate compounds for the different times of day and thier subsequently different track temps. I would like to hear what you guys more experienced with rubber tire racing think about those things.
04-30-2005, 06:45 AM
#82
Take-off makes 4 standard componds of pre-mounts.
22
27
32
37
The 27 is a soft tire that can handle spring and fall temps. Last summer in SC, track temps WELL above 130, I ran 3 racedays without any drop in lap times on the same tire. Oh yeah, and I didn't lose but maybe 1 heat race during those 3 weeks.
For carpet, rubber is more expensive, but on asphalt, rubber tires are more simplistic for the beginner, and cheaper in the long run.
22
27
32
37
The 27 is a soft tire that can handle spring and fall temps. Last summer in SC, track temps WELL above 130, I ran 3 racedays without any drop in lap times on the same tire. Oh yeah, and I didn't lose but maybe 1 heat race during those 3 weeks.
For carpet, rubber is more expensive, but on asphalt, rubber tires are more simplistic for the beginner, and cheaper in the long run.
04-30-2005, 07:02 AM
#83
So you do have to have different compounds for the different track temps? Thats too many tuning options for a beginner. On outdoor asphalt a beginner doesn't even have to true foams down any, the bigger sidewall isn't a much of a problem as on carpet.
I only have to buy 3 different compound foam tires to run both indoor and outdoor (carpet and asphalt). DblPink Orange/ Dbl Pink on the carpet and Purple/Dbl Pink on the asphalt. I run my asphalt foams at 61mm and run them down until they are about 57 or 58mm. Then I put them to the side for carpet season. I sell the purples to the local guys running Purple Plaids on carpet and I end up only needing to purchase some DblPink Oranges. It saves me money in the long run.
I understand this may not work for everyone nor every track and I wouldn't mind running rubbers on the asphalt if I knew there was a compound out that would handle the temp changes and last as long as my foams while staying as consitent as my foams.
I doubt the outdoor track I run at would ever switch to rubbers though. In addition to the expense and wear issues they also realize that heavier tires only accentuate the motor/battery "wars" in the stock class. An average stocker will have a better chance at competing if it doesn't have to spin those heavy rubbers.
I only have to buy 3 different compound foam tires to run both indoor and outdoor (carpet and asphalt). DblPink Orange/ Dbl Pink on the carpet and Purple/Dbl Pink on the asphalt. I run my asphalt foams at 61mm and run them down until they are about 57 or 58mm. Then I put them to the side for carpet season. I sell the purples to the local guys running Purple Plaids on carpet and I end up only needing to purchase some DblPink Oranges. It saves me money in the long run.
I understand this may not work for everyone nor every track and I wouldn't mind running rubbers on the asphalt if I knew there was a compound out that would handle the temp changes and last as long as my foams while staying as consitent as my foams.
I doubt the outdoor track I run at would ever switch to rubbers though. In addition to the expense and wear issues they also realize that heavier tires only accentuate the motor/battery "wars" in the stock class. An average stocker will have a better chance at competing if it doesn't have to spin those heavy rubbers.
04-30-2005, 08:42 AM
#84
Now you are talking about the average stocker. Just a few post ago, you were bragging about how your track has awesome racers that do everything they can to win.
Here's the situation for a rookie. LHS says run this tire. They buy the tire. They run all summer on one set of tires b/c they can't tell the difference btw new and old tires.
OR
LHS says run this foam. They wreck a few times in their first race. Tire is chunked all to piece. They ask the expert racers at your track. The racers say, go buy new tires. Rookie gets frustrated after a few race days and about $100 dollars. Rookie quits.
Here's the situation for a rookie. LHS says run this tire. They buy the tire. They run all summer on one set of tires b/c they can't tell the difference btw new and old tires.
OR
LHS says run this foam. They wreck a few times in their first race. Tire is chunked all to piece. They ask the expert racers at your track. The racers say, go buy new tires. Rookie gets frustrated after a few race days and about $100 dollars. Rookie quits.
04-30-2005, 08:56 AM
#85
Originally posted by Pro4Capece
Now you are talking about the average stocker. Just a few post ago, you were bragging about how your track has awesome racers that do everything they can to win.
Here's the situation for a rookie. LHS says run this tire. They buy the tire. They run all summer on one set of tires b/c they can't tell the difference btw new and old tires.
OR
LHS says run this foam. They wreck a few times in their first race. Tire is chunked all to piece. They ask the expert racers at your track. The racers say, go buy new tires. Rookie gets frustrated after a few race days and about $100 dollars. Rookie quits.
Now you are talking about the average stocker. Just a few post ago, you were bragging about how your track has awesome racers that do everything they can to win.
Here's the situation for a rookie. LHS says run this tire. They buy the tire. They run all summer on one set of tires b/c they can't tell the difference btw new and old tires.
OR
LHS says run this foam. They wreck a few times in their first race. Tire is chunked all to piece. They ask the expert racers at your track. The racers say, go buy new tires. Rookie gets frustrated after a few race days and about $100 dollars. Rookie quits.
Keith, you run different compounds in different temps. Depending on how fast you want to go vs how long you want a tire to last will determine how long your tires last....and of course if you are a smooth finesse driver or a point-and-squirt video game/slot car driver. If you have a poor setup or poor driving skills, you're going to wear out tires faster. But the outdoor temp ranges is one of the reasons why I don't like the Spec-tire rule some tracks have adopted....If you allow a harder tire, such as a CS-32 (still a premount), it will last longer, wear better, and provide better grip in hotter temps than a 27 will.
04-30-2005, 10:47 AM
#86
Originally posted by Pro4Capece
Now you are talking about the average stocker. Just a few post ago, you were bragging about how your track has awesome racers that do everything they can to win.
Now you are talking about the average stocker. Just a few post ago, you were bragging about how your track has awesome racers that do everything they can to win.
I only brought up the average racer because you said it was more simplistic for them. I suppose my question would be will ONE rubber tire compound work for a new racer (they are not finese drivers) across the range of track temperatures you see on outdoor asphalt? Or will the rookie driver get frustrated because he thought he had his car setup right (during the day) but for some reason it handles much differently at night (mains)?
I don't think its more simple for the new racers unless you say... spec tire is CS32 or TO27 or whatever.
Originally posted by RC Driver Gary
Keith, you run different compounds in different temps. Depending on how fast you want to go vs how long you want a tire to last will determine how long your tires last....
Keith, you run different compounds in different temps. Depending on how fast you want to go vs how long you want a tire to last will determine how long your tires last....
Personally, I'm sure I'd have fun racing both tire types. I just find it unfortunate that foam tire racing gets tagged as "easy" because of the increased traction. It might be easier to DRIVE a foam tire car, but that doesn't necessarily mean its easier to drive FAST. Its a different type of racing and takes a different driving style as well as different chassis setup.
04-30-2005, 11:41 AM
#88
On carpet, the traction in the mains, is different than the traction during the main. As more foam and compound is put into the carpet, a driver needs to adjust his/her setup to accommodate the new grip.
For the newbie to find out what tire to run, here's all they have to do:
"Excuse me sir, what tire should I run today?"
"Well son, the faster drivers run Take-Off CS 32 tires until 8 o'clock. Then after 8, we will run Take-Off CS 27 tires."
"Thank you"
All you have to do is take the tires out of tha wrapper, and they are race ready. There's no need to true them, balance them, or sand them.
For the newbie to find out what tire to run, here's all they have to do:
"Excuse me sir, what tire should I run today?"
"Well son, the faster drivers run Take-Off CS 32 tires until 8 o'clock. Then after 8, we will run Take-Off CS 27 tires."
"Thank you"
All you have to do is take the tires out of tha wrapper, and they are race ready. There's no need to true them, balance them, or sand them.
04-30-2005, 12:48 PM
#89
These "speed at all costs" types literally suck ALL the fun out of this hobby.
I really wish I could run the TCS series where I live to get away from all these elitist jerks who burn money like gasoline.
Many of you sound so damn condescending with comments like:
"Well don't race if you can't afford it"
"I'll use whatever makes me faster, who cares about the other guy?"
We need a REAL SACTIONING BODY that will actually SPECIFY a REAL CLASS for people who DON'T WANT TO BE ANALLY RAPED.
IE. Rubber tire 19T spec touring
I really wish I could run the TCS series where I live to get away from all these elitist jerks who burn money like gasoline.
Many of you sound so damn condescending with comments like:
"Well don't race if you can't afford it"
"I'll use whatever makes me faster, who cares about the other guy?"
We need a REAL SACTIONING BODY that will actually SPECIFY a REAL CLASS for people who DON'T WANT TO BE ANALLY RAPED.
IE. Rubber tire 19T spec touring
04-30-2005, 02:23 PM
#90
WOW that is the most defensive post I've seen yet.