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Old 04-08-2016, 02:17 AM   #706
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The plastic spacers allow for a wide range of adjustment in the wheelbase, roll center, anti-squat, etc. etc. etc. Lots of little tweaks you can make after you're "done" building one of these.

You don't have swaybars installed and the spur-gear cover isn't fitting properly. The swaybars are an essential upgrade for this chassis; all four of mine have swaybars installed in various configurations. My FWD XV-01, probably the best dirt-slider of the lot, has the thinnest swaybar installed in the front and the thickest swaybar installed in the rear -- the opposite of the other two that still have the motor mounted up front, but as it happens the thickest swaybar in the rear makes it slide marvelously. Tune the diffs to provide traction, and tune the swaybars to control chassis roll and to make the axles unload when you want them to.

Don't worry about the tie-rod ends hanging up on the chassis, you can bevel the lower edges of the tie-rod ends to make that less of a problem if you want, but it generally doesn't have any effect on the vehicle when it's supporting its own weight anyway.

Here are my two rally builds, for reference:
4WD: Re-Build Complete: Tamiya XV-01
FWD: Re-Build Complete: Tamiya XV-01 FF

And my two on-road builds:
Rear-motor 4WD: Build Complete: Tamiya RR-01
Front-motor part-time 4WD: Build Complete: Tamiya XV-01 SH-AWD

Last edited by fyrstormer; 04-08-2016 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 04-08-2016, 02:43 AM   #707
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The plastic spacers allow for a wide range of adjustment in the wheelbase, roll center, anti-squat, etc. etc. etc. Lots of little tweaks you can make after you're "done" building one of these.

You don't have swaybars installed and the spur-gear cover isn't fitting properly. The swaybars are an essential upgrade for this chassis; all four of mine have swaybars installed in various configurations. My FWD XV-01, probably the best dirt-slider of the lot, has the thinnest swaybar installed in the front and the thickest swaybar installed in the rear -- the opposite of the other two that still have the motor mounted up front, but as it happens the thickest swaybar in the rear makes it slide marvelously. Tune the diffs to provide traction, and tune the swaybars to control chassis roll and to make the axles unload when you want them to.
All I'm saying is that Tamiya should've included aluminum spacers in the Pro. I bought this for the same price as a TA06R, and the TA06R includes aluminum spacers as well as aluminum suspension mounts and also carbon damper stays. The shocks on the Pro are also a let down. It didn't come with the white TRF pistons, nor the titanium coated suspension shafts. The included shafts are longer than the hard coated ones on the 42102 TRF damper set, so perhaps that's why they included them.

Yep the spur gear cover won't fit properly. I've been messing with it but for the life of me I could not get it to fit right.

I'll tune the diffs first before fitting swaybars. I want this thing to do large donuts on dirt, and it simply can't with the outside wheels transferring all forward traction to the inner wheels when cornering. It needs a limited slip effect to slide longer.

Here's another shot with my 1:1 GT86

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Old 04-08-2016, 02:53 AM   #708
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I'm running 30k in the front diff and 10k in the rear diff in my 4WD rally build. I'm running a spool in my FWD rally build, for better traction with only two drive wheels. If you want more oversteer you can use thinner front oil and thicker rear oil than I did, but you really ought to see how the car handles with swaybars before making a final decision about which diff oil to use.

Trust me, after building four of these things I've learned that swaybars are a requirement. The shocks are too soft to control body-roll adequately, which is unavoidable because they need to be soft to handle running off-road. Too much body-roll causes the diffs to unload unpredictably.

If you don't have the 42mm double-cardan CVDs in the front, consider getting them; they allow you to achieve more steering angle, which has obvious implications for the car's ability to slide on dirt. With the double-cardan CVDs, you can remove the steering-limiting screws that you had to install in the front caster blocks during the initial build.

Aluminum spacers are nice to have, I agree. It kinda sucks that the XV-01 doesn't come with them, but the carbon-reinforced-plastic spacers work just as well -- the carbon-reinforced plastic really is strong enough to do the job.

It is possible to build TRF-quality shocks for the long-damper setup, you just have to mix-and-match parts to do it. It's detailed in my 4WD rally build.

EDIT: Btw, what's happening isn't that the traction is being shifted to the inside wheels, it's that the *motor's torque* is being dissipated by spinning the inside wheels, which allows the outside wheels to *maintain* traction. The combination of the outside wheels maintaining traction, plus the inside wheels spinning and dissipating the torque that would otherwise keep the car moving, is what causes the powerslide to end sooner than you want. Thicker diff oil will force the outside wheels to receive more of the motor's torque, causing them to break loose, start spinning, and lose traction. You're right about how to tune the diffs to get the effect you want, but I thought a better explanation of what's actually happening might help.

Last edited by fyrstormer; 04-08-2016 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 04-08-2016, 03:21 AM   #709
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You're right, it's the torque that's being transferred to the inside wheel. I got my words mixed up Okay I'll get the swaybar set and see how it handles with it.

The Pro comes with CVDs, so the steering angle limiting screw was ommited in the manual.
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Old 04-08-2016, 04:16 AM   #710
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Ah, okay. The regular CVDs are better than dogbones, of course, but they still rattle the front suspension in corners, because the "CVD" joints aren't actually constant-velocity. The outboard joints can compensate for the inconsistent rotational speed introduced by the inboard joints as the suspension moves up and down, but they can't do anything to compensate for their own inconsistent rotational speed caused when the steering knuckles turn. The double-cardan CVDs run much smoother because the double-jointed outboard joints compensate for themselves. It's a worthy upgrade if/when you get around to it, and Tamiya's steel is good enough that I haven't noticed any wear on mine despite running on dirt. You'll need to replace the inboard front wheel bearings with 5x10x3 (1mm thinner than stock), which you can get from Team Associated for a few bucks.

My first XV-01 started as an FF-04, so I already had the double-cardan CVDs, I just had to get the shorter 42mm axles to use with them so they would fit on the XV-01. It wasn't until I got my second XV-01 that I found out how much the regular CVDs rattle the front suspension. It doesn't matter nearly as much on vehicles with larger tires, but the small touring-car tires on the XV-01 don't have much inertia to smooth-out their own rotation. I now understand why high-end touring car kits all come with double-cardan CVDs in the front.
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Old 04-08-2016, 05:36 AM   #711
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Whoa! Thread's alive again! Woot!

I finished installing my stainless screws last night and the aluminum rear suspension mount. Front one is buried under the motor so that'll be a job for this weekend. I've still got a full sealed bearing kit and reinforced belt to install as well.
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:00 PM   #712
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Ah, okay. The regular CVDs are better than dogbones, of course, but they still rattle the front suspension in corners, because the "CVD" joints aren't actually constant-velocity. The outboard joints can compensate for the inconsistent rotational speed introduced by the inboard joints as the suspension moves up and down, but they can't do anything to compensate for their own inconsistent rotational speed caused when the steering knuckles turn. The double-cardan CVDs run much smoother because the double-jointed outboard joints compensate for themselves. It's a worthy upgrade if/when you get around to it, and Tamiya's steel is good enough that I haven't noticed any wear on mine despite running on dirt. You'll need to replace the inboard front wheel bearings with 5x10x3 (1mm thinner than stock), which you can get from Team Associated for a few bucks.

My first XV-01 started as an FF-04, so I already had the double-cardan CVDs, I just had to get the shorter 42mm axles to use with them so they would fit on the XV-01. It wasn't until I got my second XV-01 that I found out how much the regular CVDs rattle the front suspension. It doesn't matter nearly as much on vehicles with larger tires, but the small touring-car tires on the XV-01 don't have much inertia to smooth-out their own rotation. I now understand why high-end touring car kits all come with double-cardan CVDs in the front.
I'm aware about the advantages of DCJ shafts (I have them in 3 of my cars that I race) but I just don't feel the need to upgrade to them from CVDs if I'm just going to be bashing the XV-01 around. The Tamiya 42216 DCJ shafts already come with the thinner bearings so there's no need to get them separately.

By the way I finally fixed the spur gear cover. Turns out I forgot to cut the excess flashing on the cover lol.
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Old 04-08-2016, 06:30 PM   #713
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Interesting. I ordered the separate parts to build the double-cardan CVDs because I needed the shorter 42mm axles to use with the XV-01, and I didn't want to spend extra money on the 44mm axles I'd never use. So I had to get the bearings separately too. Whatever, as long as you're happy with it.
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Old 04-08-2016, 07:54 PM   #714
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Here's another shot with my 1:1 GT86
Nice 86 and Gazoo. I made a drift car to go with my 1:1 car, I'd like to get the Gazoo also.
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Old 04-09-2016, 04:45 AM   #715
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Nice 86 and Gazoo. I made a drift car to go with my 1:1 car, I'd like to get the Gazoo also.
Nice Release Series FR-S! body looks great! The Gazoo body would complement that on the shelf

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Old 04-10-2016, 07:21 AM   #716
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Man, you really love the FR-S. How do you feel about the Scion brand being discontinued?
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:51 AM   #717
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Man, you really love the FR-S. How do you feel about the Scion brand being discontinued?
I think Toyota finally woke up and realised the brand was completely moronic.

The FR-S will finally be sold under the name it was created for GT86
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:56 AM   #718
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Well... The 86 anyway. They just won't break down and give us the GT name. Friggin' Toyota, man. I love em but they just... ARGH!!! Anyway... the 2017 86 will be getting a slight bump of 8... yes that's correct lads, 8 more horsepowers and Gazoo Racing has tweaked the suspension a bit. I hope it does well for them.
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Old 04-10-2016, 04:53 PM   #719
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Ah, so they're not getting rid of the FR-S just because the Scion brand is going away. That's cool.

Honestly I think Scion was doomed the moment they redesigned the xB (which I say means "Xtra Boxy") to be fat and lumpy for the American market. If you're going to resell cars built for the Japanese market to foreign customers who like them, then at least sell *those exact vehicles* instead of screwing them up first. I might've gotten one of the original design if they'd stayed around long enough.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:14 PM   #720
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Well... The 86 anyway. They just won't break down and give us the GT name. Friggin' Toyota, man. I love em but they just... ARGH!!! Anyway... the 2017 86 will be getting a slight bump of 8... yes that's correct lads, 8 more horsepowers and Gazoo Racing has tweaked the suspension a bit. I hope it does well for them.
Well the GT86 name is only used in Europe. It's sold as the 86 in Japan and the rest of the world (except for Jamaica and Nicaragua where it's sold as FT86). So you guys in the US are finally getting the proper name and badge. Yeah, I'm sure nobody will miss the Scion brand
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