Kyosho Touring Car
08-29-2006, 08:47 AM
#916
Can any stallion owner please humor me and tell me the material of construction of the upper part of the bulkheads. From all available pictures, the parts appear to be some sort of black plastic.
Please..... say it isnt so. If it is so, I demand somone from Kyosho or Kyosho America to identify yourself and explain to me why plastic bulkheads are better than aluminum.
Please..... say it isnt so. If it is so, I demand somone from Kyosho or Kyosho America to identify yourself and explain to me why plastic bulkheads are better than aluminum.
08-29-2006, 09:35 AM
#917
Yes it is plastic, reason is probably that it's a bit lighter than aluminium OR that they want to sell more expensive hop ups 
The bulkheads were actually up for discussion one or two pages back so you could check that out.....
The bulkheads were actually up for discussion one or two pages back so you could check that out.....
08-29-2006, 10:26 AM
#919
Originally Posted by Sparx
Yes it is plastic, reason is probably that it's a bit lighter than aluminium OR that they want to sell more expensive hop ups
The bulkheads were actually up for discussion one or two pages back so you could check that out.....
The bulkheads were actually up for discussion one or two pages back so you could check that out.....
Thanks for your fast response. I will check a few pages back, but I still expect a response from someone on the Kyosho/Kyosho America R&D team to explain.
As for selling hop ups, I don't think we need to get into the cost of all the new TC's here, but it seems as if all the companies are trying to get a 100% ROI on the first kit they sell.
I disagree that they (plastic blukhead pieces) are as precise as aluminum. The plastic is most likely injection molded. This process has some inherent precision issues and is difficult to replicate time after time to the tolerances needed for the bulkheads of a TC. My guess is that it might be a futile effort to have a more impact resistant or resilient material that "won't tweak" on impact? Am I out of line here? In any case, I think the variations that are produced during the injection molding process could pre-tweak the car and make this one a destined loser.
Sorry Kyosho, you pulled up lame on this one. I was really looking forward to adding this stallion to my stable. But until I hear some public explanation about the plastic bulk head pieces - I am putting this horse out to pasture - and potentially putting it down in a humane fashion.
08-29-2006, 10:49 AM
#920
Originally Posted by The Maestro
Thanks for your fast response. I will check a few pages back, but I still expect a response from someone on the Kyosho/Kyosho America R&D team to explain.
As for selling hop ups, I don't think we need to get into the cost of all the new TC's here, but it seems as if all the companies are trying to get a 100% ROI on the first kit they sell.
I disagree that they (plastic blukhead pieces) are as precise as aluminum. The plastic is most likely injection molded. This process has some inherent precision issues and is difficult to replicate time after time to the tolerances needed for the bulkheads of a TC. My guess is that it might be a futile effort to have a more impact resistant or resilient material that "won't tweak" on impact? Am I out of line here? In any case, I think the variations that are produced during the injection molding process could pre-tweak the car and make this one a destined loser.
Sorry Kyosho, you pulled up lame on this one. I was really looking forward to adding this stallion to my stable. But until I hear some public explanation about the plastic bulk head pieces - I am putting this horse out to pasture - and potentially putting it down in a humane fashion.
As for selling hop ups, I don't think we need to get into the cost of all the new TC's here, but it seems as if all the companies are trying to get a 100% ROI on the first kit they sell.
I disagree that they (plastic blukhead pieces) are as precise as aluminum. The plastic is most likely injection molded. This process has some inherent precision issues and is difficult to replicate time after time to the tolerances needed for the bulkheads of a TC. My guess is that it might be a futile effort to have a more impact resistant or resilient material that "won't tweak" on impact? Am I out of line here? In any case, I think the variations that are produced during the injection molding process could pre-tweak the car and make this one a destined loser.
Sorry Kyosho, you pulled up lame on this one. I was really looking forward to adding this stallion to my stable. But until I hear some public explanation about the plastic bulk head pieces - I am putting this horse out to pasture - and potentially putting it down in a humane fashion.
True plastic injection molding isn't as accurate as CNC machining (if well done that is). However the discrepancy isn't as bad as you seem to say and in no way is going to be enough to make a car tweaked out of the box. Besides plastic is flexible enough so that it won't make the car tweak.
My other point is that Masaaki Hirosaka designed that car, and to be honest, I don't think he'll have included those parts if they were going to be an issue. From what I've heard, those parts are among those that are shared with the Z-5 and TF-5 shaft car, and have not been causing any issues.
My only gripe is that for the highest priced TC on the market, you could expect it to be the highest specced aswell.
08-29-2006, 11:23 AM
#921
Originally Posted by The Maestro
I was really looking forward to adding this stallion to my stable. But until I hear some public explanation about the plastic bulk head pieces - I am putting this horse out to pasture - and potentially putting it down in a humane fashion.
"Demanding" a public explanation about what is ultimately a toy car that you do not own is, frankly, ridiculous.
08-29-2006, 11:40 AM
#922
Originally Posted by The Maestro
I disagree that they (plastic blukhead pieces) are as precise as aluminum. The plastic is most likely injection molded. This process has some inherent precision issues and is difficult to replicate time after time to the tolerances needed for the bulkheads of a TC.
Even on a Tamiya MSX the shock tower can be tweaked if you're not paying attention when tightening the screws because the holes are a few hundreds of a mm larger than the screws.....
08-29-2006, 01:58 PM
#923
Originally Posted by sosidge
I'd rather have a fast horse than the one with the shiniest coat...
"Demanding" a public explanation about what is ultimately a toy car that you do not own is, frankly, ridiculous.
"Demanding" a public explanation about what is ultimately a toy car that you do not own is, frankly, ridiculous.
And I would rather have a horse without some intrinsic issue built into it. You would probably buy the horse that won the kentucky derby too... based on his previous perfromance. Problem is.... now he has baggage.
Demanding a public explanation is something maybe you should do more of, instead of buying whatever a company sells you. Excersise your right to get answers my man- its what make you human.
08-29-2006, 02:03 PM
#924
Originally Posted by Sparx
Who can even feel the difference when the bulkhead are tweaked less than a few hundreds of a milllimeter?
Even on a Tamiya MSX the shock tower can be tweaked if you're not paying attention when tightening the screws because the holes are a few hundreds of a mm larger than the screws.....
Even on a Tamiya MSX the shock tower can be tweaked if you're not paying attention when tightening the screws because the holes are a few hundreds of a mm larger than the screws.....
I can feel a tweak in a bulkhead..... otherwise, I would not be here expressing my concerns. Tweak anywhere in a car- top deck, bulkhead, etc. is easy to feel on the track.
Please don't take any of my comments as bashing your "pride and joy". I in fact - WANT to like the car. I think its great looking design and has potential to perform. I WANT to buy one. I have merely asked for a rationally based explaination of why my (and others) expectations of the most expensive TC ever, have not been met.
Its simple. If I read a justification as to why the plastic is better than aluminum, I buy one.
08-29-2006, 04:52 PM
#925
Originally Posted by Tim Johnson
how far along are you on the build?
I just finished the rear end. Starting on the shocks tonight. I had to use a smaller metal shim for the hinge pins because the rear arms were binding with the 3 plastic shims.
Overall it is going together well and the build quality is very good, but after building several xray's I'm spoiled.
08-29-2006, 07:47 PM
#926
Tech Master
iTrader: (55)
i've seen the upper bulkhead halfs on tamiyas, cyclones, etc bend the 'wings' (inner camer link mounts) and/or the uprights where the shock tower bolts on.
if you are truely concerned about tweak from this part of the car then with aluminium there you will have to replace it after each big hit.
with what looks to be a graphite part? it would be one less thing to worry about aslong as the molding is accurate, which it sounds like it is.
if you are truely concerned about tweak from this part of the car then with aluminium there you will have to replace it after each big hit.
with what looks to be a graphite part? it would be one less thing to worry about aslong as the molding is accurate, which it sounds like it is.
08-30-2006, 01:01 AM
#929
Originally Posted by The Maestro
I can feel a tweak in a bulkhead..... otherwise, I would not be here expressing my concerns. Tweak anywhere in a car- top deck, bulkhead, etc. is easy to feel on the track.
Please don't take any of my comments as bashing your "pride and joy". I in fact - WANT to like the car. I think its great looking design and has potential to perform. I WANT to buy one. I have merely asked for a rationally based explaination of why my (and others) expectations of the most expensive TC ever, have not been met.
Its simple. If I read a justification as to why the plastic is better than aluminum, I buy one.
Please don't take any of my comments as bashing your "pride and joy". I in fact - WANT to like the car. I think its great looking design and has potential to perform. I WANT to buy one. I have merely asked for a rationally based explaination of why my (and others) expectations of the most expensive TC ever, have not been met.
Its simple. If I read a justification as to why the plastic is better than aluminum, I buy one.
Last edited by Patriiick; 08-30-2006 at 02:33 AM.
08-30-2006, 06:47 AM
#930
first impressions
the car is fitted, and ready to go. something i've noted is the amount of bump steer that the sd car has. bump in, that is. unfortunately, adding shims at the knuckle will only make the problem worse.
the nice part of the steering design is that the rack is pushed forward pretty well, which keeps better ackermann and control going. however, like i mentioned, it appears that the vertical alignment is off initially.
the batteries are also pretty centered, which is good on the rug. in years past, the batteries were always a half cell or more rearward on most of these cars (evo's, sd, barracuda, etc).
chassis stiffness is surprisingly good, considering the plastic gearcases, and thin plates. *i did double the top decks for foam tire racing.
other than that, it's pretty standard. the softer plastic of the arms leaves a little to be desired, as the screws really don't tighten much. i understand harder ones are in the works, as well as aluminum outdrives. those will both be good mods.
track impressions after tonight's run at the gate...
- harold howely -
the nice part of the steering design is that the rack is pushed forward pretty well, which keeps better ackermann and control going. however, like i mentioned, it appears that the vertical alignment is off initially.
the batteries are also pretty centered, which is good on the rug. in years past, the batteries were always a half cell or more rearward on most of these cars (evo's, sd, barracuda, etc).
chassis stiffness is surprisingly good, considering the plastic gearcases, and thin plates. *i did double the top decks for foam tire racing.
other than that, it's pretty standard. the softer plastic of the arms leaves a little to be desired, as the screws really don't tighten much. i understand harder ones are in the works, as well as aluminum outdrives. those will both be good mods.
track impressions after tonight's run at the gate...
- harold howely -