Carpet skills vs asphalt skills
11-05-2012, 07:53 AM
#1
Carpet skills vs asphalt skills
Hey guys well my indoor carpet season started not to long ago and I'm noticing that I am much better on asphalt then i am on carpet ....my question is what am I missing (besides driver skills lol ).....I'm trying to figure out how I was able to stay in the top 3 all asphalt season but can't keep that same pace on carpet .......any advice on what I should try?
11-05-2012, 08:01 AM
#2
Hey guys well my indoor carpet season started not to long ago and I'm noticing that I am much better on asphalt then i am on carpet ....my question is what am I missing (besides driver skills lol ).....I'm trying to figure out how I was able to stay in the top 3 all asphalt season but can't keep that same pace on carpet .......any advice on what I should try?
Practice. Get used to the different changes you need to make to hit corners different. I know in asphalt i'm used to have a car go slower due to less traction so I am not carrying enough corner speed and I am not hitting the corner as tight as I should.
11-05-2012, 08:13 AM
#3
Tech Regular
Hey guys well my indoor carpet season started not to long ago and I'm noticing that I am much better on asphalt then i am on carpet ....my question is what am I missing (besides driver skills lol ).....I'm trying to figure out how I was able to stay in the top 3 all asphalt season but can't keep that same pace on carpet .......any advice on what I should try?
There are quite a few "top" drivers who outdoors are superb, but then struggle a bit on carpet.
11-05-2012, 09:24 AM
#4
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Hey guys well my indoor carpet season started not to long ago and I'm noticing that I am much better on asphalt then i am on carpet ....my question is what am I missing (besides driver skills lol ).....I'm trying to figure out how I was able to stay in the top 3 all asphalt season but can't keep that same pace on carpet .......any advice on what I should try?
11-05-2012, 10:04 AM
#5
Tech Regular
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Other things to consider:
Carpet is higher bite. If you haven't already, stiffen your setup to keep from getting too much traction. Other tweaks to camber and toe may be needed too.
Tires previously run on asphalt won't work well on carpet in my experience. Get new tires if you haven't already.
Just my $.02 and I hope it helps.
Carpet is higher bite. If you haven't already, stiffen your setup to keep from getting too much traction. Other tweaks to camber and toe may be needed too.
Tires previously run on asphalt won't work well on carpet in my experience. Get new tires if you haven't already.
Just my $.02 and I hope it helps.
11-05-2012, 10:52 AM
#6
I used to be the same, but I've been racing on carpet a lot this year to try and reduce the gap between my asphalt results and carpet.
I struggled really badly at the beginning of the year regularly making the B Final my Friday night club (They would have, at most, down to a half filled C Final). I fiddled with setup week after week and steadily got better, putting it all down to my setup changes. Then realised a couple of times that I'd accidentely left most of my asphalt settings on the car and still managed to make mid A-Final.
Now my outdoor and indoor setups are the same except for springs.
I think my improvement has come from running a lot more on carpet than I used to and getting used to the increased grip and tighter turns etc.
Ironically, in turn I think this has improved my asphalt results this year as well!
I struggled really badly at the beginning of the year regularly making the B Final my Friday night club (They would have, at most, down to a half filled C Final). I fiddled with setup week after week and steadily got better, putting it all down to my setup changes. Then realised a couple of times that I'd accidentely left most of my asphalt settings on the car and still managed to make mid A-Final.
Now my outdoor and indoor setups are the same except for springs.
I think my improvement has come from running a lot more on carpet than I used to and getting used to the increased grip and tighter turns etc.
Ironically, in turn I think this has improved my asphalt results this year as well!
11-05-2012, 11:15 AM
#7
Tech Regular
I used to be the same, but I've been racing on carpet a lot this year to try and reduce the gap between my asphalt results and carpet.
I struggled really badly at the beginning of the year regularly making the B Final my Friday night club (They would have, at most, down to a half filled C Final). I fiddled with setup week after week and steadily got better, putting it all down to my setup changes. Then realised a couple of times that I'd accidentely left most of my asphalt settings on the car and still managed to make mid A-Final.
Now my outdoor and indoor setups are the same except for springs.
I think my improvement has come from running a lot more on carpet than I used to and getting used to the increased grip and tighter turns etc.
Ironically, in turn I think this has improved my asphalt results this year as well!
I struggled really badly at the beginning of the year regularly making the B Final my Friday night club (They would have, at most, down to a half filled C Final). I fiddled with setup week after week and steadily got better, putting it all down to my setup changes. Then realised a couple of times that I'd accidentely left most of my asphalt settings on the car and still managed to make mid A-Final.
Now my outdoor and indoor setups are the same except for springs.
I think my improvement has come from running a lot more on carpet than I used to and getting used to the increased grip and tighter turns etc.
Ironically, in turn I think this has improved my asphalt results this year as well!
Indoor carpet racing is harder.
11-05-2012, 11:20 AM
#8
Gotta know how to wheel a twitchy car on carpet, and try to catch snap oversteer before it becomes a wreck. It's rare you'll race in great traction on the rug with rubber tires. It's a constant battle of trying to keep both ends pointing in the right direction while driving balls out. If you've got good wheels at your track, a car that's easy to drive won't be fast enough to win unless everybody else wrecks and you don't. Which does happen, but I'd rather not wait on others to fail to get a win.
11-05-2012, 12:06 PM
#9
Tech Regular
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Gotta know how to wheel a twitchy car on carpet, and try to catch snap oversteer before it becomes a wreck. It's rare you'll race in great traction on the rug with rubber tires. It's a constant battle of trying to keep both ends pointing in the right direction while driving balls out. If you've got good wheels at your track, a car that's easy to drive won't be fast enough to win unless everybody else wrecks and you don't. Which does happen, but I'd rather not wait on others to fail to get a win.
11-05-2012, 12:08 PM
#10
Gotta know how to wheel a twitchy car on carpet, and try to catch snap oversteer before it becomes a wreck. It's rare you'll race in great traction on the rug with rubber tires. It's a constant battle of trying to keep both ends pointing in the right direction while driving balls out. If you've got good wheels at your track, a car that's easy to drive won't be fast enough to win unless everybody else wrecks and you don't. Which does happen, but I'd rather not wait on others to fail to get a win.
I am better, relatively, on carpet than asphalt. In opinion, that is partly experience, partly my driving style, and partly power.
Asphalt tracks in the UK are generally a lot bigger than the carpet tracks, and laptime has a lot more to do with power and track conditions. When the corners are open, you don't gain much from being 6 inches closer to the apex, but missed apexes cost loads of time indoors.
11-05-2012, 12:47 PM
#11
I think setup matters a LOT more indoors.
1) Asphalt has more progressive traction. You can drive around setup issues a lot more easily.
2) Tire newness makes much more difference on asphalt. Sometimes you can out-perform better drivers just by having newer tires. On the other hand, saucing is more critical indoors. Get it wrong, and you'll be ice skating or traction rolling.
3) The more open layouts of asphalt, with more consistent traction in and out of the groove, makes it easier to get a decently fast line, even if you're not on the fast line.
On carpet, you really need a car that you're in sync with, so you can push it very hard while still keeping it off the boards and in the groove. If you don't push it hard, you'll just be off pace. But if pushing hard makes you hit things or get out of the groove, you'll get your tires dirty or mess up the car, and go slower.
I don't think a car has to be hard to drive, though. I think it just takes more fine-tuning to get the reactions more in sync with yourself as a driver.
-Mike
1) Asphalt has more progressive traction. You can drive around setup issues a lot more easily.
2) Tire newness makes much more difference on asphalt. Sometimes you can out-perform better drivers just by having newer tires. On the other hand, saucing is more critical indoors. Get it wrong, and you'll be ice skating or traction rolling.
3) The more open layouts of asphalt, with more consistent traction in and out of the groove, makes it easier to get a decently fast line, even if you're not on the fast line.
On carpet, you really need a car that you're in sync with, so you can push it very hard while still keeping it off the boards and in the groove. If you don't push it hard, you'll just be off pace. But if pushing hard makes you hit things or get out of the groove, you'll get your tires dirty or mess up the car, and go slower.
I don't think a car has to be hard to drive, though. I think it just takes more fine-tuning to get the reactions more in sync with yourself as a driver.
-Mike
11-05-2012, 01:04 PM
#12
Not my experience of carpet racing at all. Twitchiness and lack of grip are never an issue after the first round of racing for me, and that is on temporary UK tracks which have a lot less traction than the permanent US tracks (or so I am led to believe).
I am better, relatively, on carpet than asphalt. In opinion, that is partly experience, partly my driving style, and partly power.
Asphalt tracks in the UK are generally a lot bigger than the carpet tracks, and laptime has a lot more to do with power and track conditions. When the corners are open, you don't gain much from being 6 inches closer to the apex, but missed apexes cost loads of time indoors.
I am better, relatively, on carpet than asphalt. In opinion, that is partly experience, partly my driving style, and partly power.
Asphalt tracks in the UK are generally a lot bigger than the carpet tracks, and laptime has a lot more to do with power and track conditions. When the corners are open, you don't gain much from being 6 inches closer to the apex, but missed apexes cost loads of time indoors.
Out permanent tracks here tend to get a muddy groove. Not high traction, per se, but small tracks with lots of cross grooves from old layouts. Sorex on a big track without a dirty groove would probably be pretty nice. That's what I see in your videos. That's not really what we have here.
11-05-2012, 01:07 PM
#13
Maybe you just have better drivers that race at this carpet track and not at the asphalt track you race at? From what I have seen if you are a good driver you will be good on either surface. If you struggle on one vs the other its more then likely because the talent pool is deeper on the surface you are struggling with. Also most asphalt tracks are wider tracks and can hide bad habits of driving then when going to a tighter smaller carpet track these bad habits lead to broken cars and being off pace. Just saying it might not be anything you are missing just look at who you are racing against.
I do think having the ability to take corners a lot differently is what the difference between good guys and top guys. I think I personally setup my car for asphalt and not a mutual track. Where I feel the difference lies is a sweet spot for the car on asphalt or carpet (assuming both smooth surfaces). I feel the top top people who run have that ability. I am currently working on getting that together. As there are still the top guys who can come out and beat most of us by a lap or so. Take out the crashes and watch an A-main and the top guys and see how after the first corner they pull away from the guys who would be in the bottom of the A or the B-main. Its setup and driving for sure. I will be the first to admit that I currently do not possess this setup or skill set. But I feel through practice and trial and error that I can get there.
11-05-2012, 01:17 PM
#14
What tires do you run? Sorex is barely a rubber tire.
Out permanent tracks here tend to get a muddy groove. Not high traction, per se, but small tracks with lots of cross grooves from old layouts. Sorex on a big track without a dirty groove would probably be pretty nice. That's what I see in your videos. That's not really what we have here.
Out permanent tracks here tend to get a muddy groove. Not high traction, per se, but small tracks with lots of cross grooves from old layouts. Sorex on a big track without a dirty groove would probably be pretty nice. That's what I see in your videos. That's not really what we have here.
I always ask a lot of questions etc and try to answer others, but you might notice I usually ask if there are links to any video's etc of their track, so we can see what we're dealing with.
There does seem to be quite a difference in the way the tracks are used, particularly between the US and UK.
Our 'Friday Night' clubs tend to be small temporary affairs in school halls etc where carpet has to be rolled up at the end of the evening. Some of us are lucky enough to have a Friday club that is 30m*16m, but the carpet still has to come up.
The US tracks seem more often to be semi permanent so the grip just keeps rising until the layout is changed. But they often also appear to be a bit smaller and tighter than ours.
I know there are exceptions to all the above but that appears to me to be the general trend.
11-05-2012, 01:23 PM
#15
What tires do you run? Sorex is barely a rubber tire.
Out permanent tracks here tend to get a muddy groove. Not high traction, per se, but small tracks with lots of cross grooves from old layouts. Sorex on a big track without a dirty groove would probably be pretty nice. That's what I see in your videos. That's not really what we have here.
Out permanent tracks here tend to get a muddy groove. Not high traction, per se, but small tracks with lots of cross grooves from old layouts. Sorex on a big track without a dirty groove would probably be pretty nice. That's what I see in your videos. That's not really what we have here.