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Old 03-23-2005, 05:58 PM   #901
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ROAR doesn't really give a damn about what anybody writes in this thread.

According ti Dawn Sanchez, nobody from ROAR reads these threads:

to all:

Please.. I have even fallen into this debate trap and I would ask, lets tone it down? Complaining about who does what and when and where isn't going to accomplish anything.. there are three threads in the General Forums for ROAR bashing, go there...... really, ROAR doesn't read those and doesn't follow them around. (well, I do.. but I'm demented that way.)
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Old 03-23-2005, 06:16 PM   #902
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Originally posted by 403forbidden
ROAR doesn't really give a damn about what anybody writes in this thread.
I can tell you that a lot of people involved in ROAR do know what is being said here and in other forums. A number of people have take the time to write some really well thought out reviews on how things could be improved. Their efforts are not in vain,. I've see ROAR go through a lot in my years of racing and the one constant in ROAR is change. I'm sure we will see changes to ROAR based on the feedback here and and the experiences at Hobby Chamber.
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Old 03-23-2005, 09:27 PM   #903
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Time to unstick this thread out of its misery...
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Old 03-23-2005, 09:44 PM   #904
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Default Re: brushed and brushless

Originally posted by ROARprez
It seems the two technologies are not offering a huge advantage over the other at this point.

In TC a brushed won, in 1:12 a brushless won.

In 1:12 it came down to the 3rd Main to determine a winner.

The winner won because of driving not motor at this particular race.

After talking to observers of the mains you could not tell which cars had the brushed or brushless motors in them it was that close.

ROAR has decided to follow the international rules for these classes that are being run in international competitions.

Our approval process was flawed but will be corrected before the next nationals for brushless and 19T.

I have to say that I disagree with the part that says you couldn't tell which car was brushed or brushless in 12th mod. Perhaps if Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder was reporting....the brushless powered car pulled for 8 minutes.....where a brushed motor driver has to "throttle" drive for 8 minutes to make runtime a driver running a brushless system because of its efficiency can yank on the throttle and still make time.

This is not a knock on brushless products, I mean how can you knock it, tons of rip, top speed, no rebuilds, runtime not an issue and highly efficient.

Simply put, the rules that where in place were not followed. I think brushless powered cars should have there own class.

I hope that this whole situation becomes a learning experience for everyone. It would be sad, to see so much input from such a varied group of people goto waste and not be taken into consideration.

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Old 03-23-2005, 09:54 PM   #905
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What he said..not only that but I put way more "trust" in what Mike said than what Rick said..
I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
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Old 03-23-2005, 10:07 PM   #906
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Originally posted by futureal
Time to unstick this thread out of its misery...
I would say lock it...LOL
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Old 03-24-2005, 05:01 AM   #907
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As near as I can tell, the only rule the brushless motor in question did not meet is the availability rule. The motor was not available to the general public as the rules require. I believe all of the other technicial rules (size, magnets, wire) were followed.

When brushless became available for RC cars, ROAR made a deomnstration class for them, and then, after input from many ROAR members, allowed brushless in the modified class. There is no reason to disallow a new technology from what is essentially an open class.

Brushless motors are specifically banned from stock and 19 turn because there's no way of checking the speed control settings.
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Old 03-24-2005, 06:39 AM   #908
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Butter I agree with you mostly, but you could tell there was a lack of bottom end torque with the brushless in the infield.

Straightaway the brushless looked like it had a definate advantage though.

I also agree that it looked like it could finish stronger than those with brushed motors.

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Old 03-24-2005, 06:45 AM   #909
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You guys need to have an annual general meeting of members and roar about the rules. Maybe when everyone goes down to vegas. Also you should look a the UK BRCA rules on brushless and how we are deciding to class them based on power output.
Also maybe you should look at getting advice from experianced hobbyist /engineers about brushless motors and speed controls.
It also look like roar needs to set down organisational standard on how each race is run, guy going home with other people tranmitters is just not on.
Maybe some kind of basic training for the race organisers and techs(scruteneers) should be given by roar this should keep the racing fair and organised.
You also need to look a insurance liability risks and cover for all national events sanction by roar should be covered by roar.
I am not slating roar I am just stating that the racer should be able to voice opinion and have a democratic organisation based on what the racers want not what the manufacturers want .brca web
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Old 03-24-2005, 07:06 AM   #910
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Butter, the Stevie Wonder comment was good.

I am a little worried about your health, any chance you would consider changing to 'Margarine' ?

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Old 03-24-2005, 07:10 AM   #911
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Old 03-24-2005, 07:11 AM   #912
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Default lipoly cells

i thought they were having durability problems with them. i might be wrong but i thought they could explode if the car takes a hard hit.

you also need a differant charger to charge them.

brushless motors:

i thought for nats or reganal events brushless was a special class. i have been thinking about a brushless, but right now i like working on my own motors.
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Old 03-24-2005, 07:12 AM   #913
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Old 03-24-2005, 08:24 AM   #914
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Brushed vs. Brushless:

There is a huge misconception to think that the ROAR rules are equal regarding the brushed vs. brushless motors. If it is ROAR's intent to allow both to compete against one another, let's do so with rule equality.

If both types of motors were given equal consideration by ROAR before they allowed brushless and brushed to compete against one another, consider the following:

-Why are brushed motors held to a $95 maximum retail price, and brushless is not?

-How much could the brushed motor technology increase if they weren't held to a price cap?

-Why are brushless motors allowed to utilize rare earth magnets and brushed motors aren't?

-Anyone physically measure a brushless can/armature and compare the dimensions to a brushed motor?

-Why do brushed motors need to be submitted, spec'd, and readily available to the public for approval but brushless does not?

-Where could a racer purchase the brushless systems used at the Nats prior to / or at the race?

For what it's worth...

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Old 03-24-2005, 08:41 AM   #915
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