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Old 05-19-2013, 04:17 PM   #3646
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Does anyone have an issue with weepy shock seals? After every race day I find the bottom of the shock seal area damp as well as the spring cup. The car isn't more than a few races old.

Thanks
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #3647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niemand View Post
Hey guys,
I am totally lost setup-wise. I hope you can help me.
Im running on a small and rather tight asphalt track with low to medium traction.

My setup:
Base asphalt exept for
1mm rollcenter spacers on the bulkheads instead of 2 mm (front and rear)
rear shocks in hole 3
0,5 degrees of arm sweep front
Protoform Mazda Speed 6 body (LTCR already ordered)
Ride Re32
17,5t boosted or 10,5t

My problem:
I just dont have enough traction.
Loose rear end on corner exit, massive understeer through fast corners, slight understeer in medium speed corners and massive understeer in slow corners entry to middle.
I also drove a Tamiya teamdriver's car and his 417 v5 was just that much better so its not the trackconditions in general. He didn't even use the raceberry conversion kit

Tried a lot of stuff already, nothing really worked. So please help me. Any ideas are welcome

Regards,
David
Thicker rear diff oils will solve some of those issues - try around 1500cst.
And maybe remove progressive springs and try a linear one in the rear... 2.5 maybe.
Front gear diff will make car a bit easier to drive.
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Old 05-19-2013, 04:56 PM   #3648
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Does xray make a oval car?
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Old 05-19-2013, 05:08 PM   #3649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycan View Post
Thicker rear diff oils will solve some of those issues - try around 1500cst.
And maybe remove progressive springs and try a linear one in the rear... 2.5 maybe.
Front gear diff will make car a bit easier to drive.
Or of curiousty which issues do you think the thicker diff fluid will correct?

Dave
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:40 PM   #3650
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Originally Posted by TT_Vert View Post
Or of curiousty which issues do you think the thicker diff fluid will correct?

Dave
On power rear traction. Will help equal the rotation of the both rear wheels forcing the diff to push the car forward.
Check out Hagberg's setup for low traction asphalt - http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...D=240&setup=t4
3k in rear diff.
Its definitely worth trying.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:57 PM   #3651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niemand View Post
Hey guys,
I am totally lost setup-wise. I hope you can help me.
Im running on a small and rather tight asphalt track with low to medium traction.

My setup:
Base asphalt exept for
1mm rollcenter spacers on the bulkheads instead of 2 mm (front and rear)
rear shocks in hole 3
0,5 degrees of arm sweep front
Protoform Mazda Speed 6 body (LTCR already ordered)
Ride Re32
17,5t boosted or 10,5t

My problem:
I just dont have enough traction.
Loose rear end on corner exit, massive understeer through fast corners, slight understeer in medium speed corners and massive understeer in slow corners entry to middle.
I also drove a Tamiya teamdriver's car and his 417 v5 was just that much better so its not the trackconditions in general. He didn't even use the raceberry conversion kit

Tried a lot of stuff already, nothing really worked. So please help me. Any ideas are welcome

Regards,
David
I'm in the same boat here, exactly the same problems in all the same areas. The slower the speed, the worse the corner exit oversteer is. The car looks like its diffing out, loses all forward drive and spins inner rear.

I will admit I haven't tried 2k rear diff oil on a medium size track yet. Only small tracks. This makes the understeer worse and does nothing for the on power oversteer. Setup helps with drivability a bit, and I can drive around the problem, but it does nothing for improving the laptimes.

Things I have found to help are:

1mm shims under the inner ball studs
1.3mm bars front and rear (need to try 1.4 front and rear)
5.4 front droop
4.4 rear droop
(any less droop ie 6f 5r = diffing out)
Foam bits in the shock caps

This makes the car driveable, not fast. I still get left behind on tight corners.

I will either try a 2mm chassis or get a new car and get my friend to build it. I swear that guy has magic fingers. Everytime he builds a new car they are fast. Everytime I build a new car, slow
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:50 AM   #3652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niemand View Post
Hey guys,
I am totally lost setup-wise. I hope you can help me.
Im running on a small and rather tight asphalt track with low to medium traction.

My setup:
Base asphalt exept for
1mm rollcenter spacers on the bulkheads instead of 2 mm (front and rear)
rear shocks in hole 3
0,5 degrees of arm sweep front
Protoform Mazda Speed 6 body (LTCR already ordered)
Ride Re32
17,5t boosted or 10,5t

My problem:

I just dont have enough traction.
Loose rear end on corner exit, massive understeer through fast corners, slight understeer in medium speed corners and massive understeer in slow corners entry to middle.
I also drove a Tamiya teamdriver's car and his 417 v5 was just that much better so its not the trackconditions in general. He didn't even use the raceberry conversion kit

Tried a lot of stuff already, nothing really worked. So please help me. Any ideas are welcome

Regards,
David
Here's my .02, sounds like a droop issue to me. Try more front droop, it'll transfer more weight rearward on power (better corner exit) plus allow the front to roll more in high speed corners (more front grip). I never seem to get too far from 5 front and rear measured on Hudy blocks. It's worth a try...JMO.

BTW: I've ran my T4's with short upper links quite a bit too. For me, the increased camber gain sharpens the overall handling significantly... Worth a try if you car is feeling lazy.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:59 AM   #3653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontfeelcold View Post
I'm in the same boat here, exactly the same problems in all the same areas. The slower the speed, the worse the corner exit oversteer is. The car looks like its diffing out, loses all forward drive and spins inner rear.

I will admit I haven't tried 2k rear diff oil on a medium size track yet. Only small tracks. This makes the understeer worse and does nothing for the on power oversteer. Setup helps with drivability a bit, and I can drive around the problem, but it does nothing for improving the laptimes.

Things I have found to help are:

1mm shims under the inner ball studs
1.3mm bars front and rear (need to try 1.4 front and rear)
5.4 front droop
4.4 rear droop
(any less droop ie 6f 5r = diffing out)
Foam bits in the shock caps

This makes the car driveable, not fast. I still get left behind on tight corners.

I will either try a 2mm chassis or get a new car and get my friend to build it. I swear that guy has magic fingers. Everytime he builds a new car they are fast. Everytime I build a new car, slow
What ackerman are u running? Got any shims on your bell crank? Try adding 1 or 2 mm shims here and see if that helps with the push problem. I'd maybe even try the rear shocks more upright.

Regards,

Simon
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:40 AM   #3654
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Wow thats a lot of input guys.
Thanks to all of you. I will try as much of all those suggestions as I can the next time I'm on the track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Could try;
Thinner roll bars
Get rid of arm sweep
Different springs, progressives all round etc.
0mm on rear upper link will help rear traction but might reduce steering.
I'll need to order some parts to do that but definitely going to give it a shot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JOE SI View Post
Check droop, ride height and shocks. Just sounds weird being loose on corner exit and push on fast corners since most of the time they're both on throttle.
I do that every run so I doubt thats the issue here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycan View Post
Thicker rear diff oils will solve some of those issues - try around 1500cst.
And maybe remove progressive springs and try a linear one in the rear... 2.5 maybe.
Front gear diff will make car a bit easier to drive.
Strangely the harder rear diff oil made it worse last time I tried it.
Front gear diff may be worth a shot, although most people tend to only run it in modified classes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontfeelcold View Post
I'm in the same boat here, exactly the same problems in all the same areas. The slower the speed, the worse the corner exit oversteer is. The car looks like its diffing out, loses all forward drive and spins inner rear.

I will admit I haven't tried 2k rear diff oil on a medium size track yet. Only small tracks. This makes the understeer worse and does nothing for the on power oversteer. Setup helps with drivability a bit, and I can drive around the problem, but it does nothing for improving the laptimes.

Things I have found to help are:

1mm shims under the inner ball studs -that's how i currently run it
1.3mm bars front and rear (need to try 1.4 front and rear)
5.4 front droop
4.4 rear droop
(any less droop ie 6f 5r = diffing out)
Foam bits in the shock caps

This makes the car driveable, not fast. I still get left behind on tight corners.

I will either try a 2mm chassis or get a new car and get my friend to build it. I swear that guy has magic fingers. Everytime he builds a new car they are fast. Everytime I build a new car, slow
I'll send your friend a kit of mine to build
However my car was insanely fast on carpet. So I hope its not the car itself.
I kinda doubt my car is diffing out, its doing the same as if it would diff out but it just feels different. But I'll give it a shot to know for sure.
Let me know if your new car or the 2mm chassis do any good when you get them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar951 View Post
Here's my .02, sounds like a droop issue to me. Try more front droop, it'll transfer more weight rearward on power (better corner exit) plus allow the front to roll more in high speed corners (more front grip). I never seem to get too far from 5 front and rear measured on Hudy blocks. It's worth a try...JMO.

BTW: I've ran my T4's with short upper links quite a bit too. For me, the increased camber gain sharpens the overall handling significantly... Worth a try if you car is feeling lazy.
I'll definitely play around with droop.
My upperlinks are in the middle position (front) and outer = short in the rear. The car is plenty agile. It just doesnt have any significant grip compared to other cars running with me.Altough I managed to win at the last club meeting (but i was more drifting and sliding around than actually driving).

Thanks to all you guys again. I'll keep you posted on my progress.
Regards,
David
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:55 AM   #3655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Krusty View Post
What ackerman are u running? Got any shims on your bell crank? Try adding 1 or 2 mm shims here and see if that helps with the push problem. I'd maybe even try the rear shocks more upright.

Regards,

Simon
I'm running 1mm Ackermann atm. A mate of mine tried adding more but didnt like it that much. The problem at the track is that at high speed there is merely a difference between the steering being on full lock or not steering at all. Thats how much understeer we have to fight with
I really liked my car through the technical section of the track with my current shock position compared to the kit positions. More upright shocks in the rear made the mid corner understeer nearly unbearable but maybe it works together with leaning the front shocks in more.
Maybe the front end was just too hard all along.

Wasn't there a mod involving the springtension nuts(dont know the proper term) to run HPI springs?
Any thoughts on using HPI silver/silver or pink/silver instead of Xray springs?

Regards
David
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:10 AM   #3656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niemand View Post
I'm running 1mm Ackermann atm. A mate of mine tried adding more but didnt like it that much. The problem at the track is that at high speed there is merely a difference between the steering being on full lock or not steering at all. Thats how much understeer we have to fight with
I really liked my car through the technical section of the track with my current shock position compared to the kit positions. More upright shocks in the rear made the mid corner understeer nearly unbearable but maybe it works together with leaning the front shocks in more.
Maybe the front end was just too hard all along.

Wasn't there a mod involving the springtension nuts(dont know the proper term) to run HPI springs?
Any thoughts on using HPI silver/silver or pink/silver instead of Xray springs?

Regards
David
Just a stupid suggestion. have you tried different tires. i hate my car on rides but is good on muchmores. or even blue rides a lot of locals use blues on asphalt.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:08 AM   #3657
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I haven't gotten to ackermann yet. I will try that next, as geometry and springs has done very little to the car.

I have tried different tyres. The car handles the same on Rides, Muchmores and Panaracers. It was at its fastest on the Ride 32 LT, but the handling was the same.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:56 AM   #3658
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Just a stupid suggestion. have you tried different tires. i hate my car on rides but is good on muchmores. or even blue rides a lot of locals use blues on asphalt.
Nope haven't done that yet.
Ride 32 (red) are the only tire we allow for our club races, so there's no use of other tires being better. And the blue Ride are only allowed for indoor races.
So I'm stuck with the red Ride tires.
The TRF teamdriver's car i spoke of before somehow drives almost like on rails with those tires so there's gotta be something I can do to make my car drive better.

Regards
David
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:19 AM   #3659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niemand View Post
Nope haven't done that yet.
Ride 32 (red) are the only tire we allow for our club races, so there's no use of other tires being better. And the blue Ride are only allowed for indoor races.
So I'm stuck with the red Ride tires.
The TRF teamdriver's car i spoke of before somehow drives almost like on rails with those tires so there's gotta be something I can do to make my car drive better.

Regards
David
What's your tire prep?
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:32 AM   #3660
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What's your tire prep?
Clean tires with motorspray or similar.
Reglue if neccessary.
Sauce tires 30min before the run with LRP Top Traction, AME MBT Asphalt or CS Max Grip.
Heat to 60C (for 30 minutes).

Tried not cleaning them with motorspray but that didn't help much.
Old tires (10+ runs) seem to be working better than new tires for many Xray drivers here.

Regards,
David
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