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Old 03-03-2013, 09:17 AM   #2881
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Originally Posted by cyba888 View Post
Need some advice please I been running my T4 on stock asphalt setup since day one and have not changed a thing because its so easy to drive and have not run into any problems yet until today. I run outdoors on asphalt and today the weather was quite cold which I keep having oversteer problems. Can someone tell me what is the first thing you change when a issue like this comes up? For example first thing is go with harder tires, second would be the springs, third move suspension to different hole etc. Would toe adjustment and roll center be the last things to change? Another important question is for oversteer do I start by fixing the problem first at the front or rear of the car? Changing shock or diff oil would be my last option because I prefer not to do it at the track. Sorry if my post is confusing. BTW I use Ride 32 tires with paragon additive
If your car was fine on the same track when warmer, then it sounds like you should only be making small changes.
Softer tyres would be the best start. Then you could try softer springs and/or oil.

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Old 03-03-2013, 03:22 PM   #2882
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Originally Posted by yunowill View Post
Hey guys just commenting back on my original post and all your suggestions that were made .


So I made the following changes :

Rear Diff 3000 Sct

I tryed leaning the shocks down

I also tryed increasing rear toe instead of the kit (0.75 mm shim ) I used a 1mm shim

I also tryed 35 wt oil in the front shocks with zero rebound and 30 wt in the rear shocks with zero rebound .

My camber remains at 1 degree and so does my toe out at 1 degree .


I am not sure what I am doing wrong but the car is still pushing . I do understand that you are supposed to be off the throttle coming into the corner and what not ...I get all that sort of stuff in terms of apex's ,coming out of the turn ,going into the turn etc ...

At my track I have a long sweeping corner ... My buddy with the same car ,same motor ,same gear ratio hits the corner at full throttle .....Where is my car if I give it too much it will push its way to the outside wall .

My buddies car is the kit setup with 1000 Sct diff oil and 35 wt shock oil in the front with zero rebound . Also layed down his rear shocks one hole . And droop is 3mm rear 2mm front (might be the other way around Im not 100% )

So basically I am totally lost on why my car is doing this and its starting to annoy me lol .....My car sits right now as the kit setup with the changes of the diff oil (3000 Sct) and Front shock oil (35wt ) ....Other than that its the same as the kit setup or what my buddy is running and not having problems with . ( His car seems like it has so much steering its not even funny ...I can barely drive the car because its so responsive and does not push ....However I feel that the only thing that my car needs that he doesnt have is alot of traction in the rear ....I guess my friends personal preference or driving style he is okay with that ....But I like my car tight in the rear .)

If you guys got any other suggestion or help that would be greatly appreciated .


Thanks in advance
Will,
I hate to tell you this, but this whole scenario was normal for me. This is the characteristic of the xray t4. I tried everything but gave in, in the end. I brought a tcxx and it was more like the xray t3 2012 but with more stability.

I tried everything in my whole Rc experience and I came to the conclusion its a combination of front chassis flex and the super short shocks causing these problems. It's just too stable. When you change the balance in a big way then the car carries even less corner speed. It's a great car if you have the driving style, (ultra aggressive) for this car, however if you like to coax the rear end around and drive with feel, this car simply doesn't respond that way.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:02 PM   #2883
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Anybody using these steering blocks?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ock-w-Bearings
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:27 PM   #2884
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
If your car was fine on the same track when warmer, then it sounds like you should only be making small changes.
Softer tyres would be the best start. Then you could try softer springs and/or oil.

Skiddins

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Old 03-04-2013, 08:52 AM   #2885
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Originally Posted by jmoneym View Post
Anybody using these steering blocks?
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ock-w-Bearings
There's really no need unless you want the bling. I ran them in 06 on my T2 for a while but the bearings used in the alu knuckles are smaller and a little fragile. JMO
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:56 AM   #2886
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There's really no need unless you want the bling. I ran them in 06 on my T2 for a while but the bearings used in the alu knuckles are smaller and a little fragile. JMO
If you don't want to use the goofy plastic inserts, you can use 5mm x 11mm x 4mm bearings, and then they are less fragile than the 5x9x3 that come with the alu knuckles, and also the 5x10x4 used in the stock plastic knuckles.

Of course, then you need to carry 2 sizes of wheel bearings....
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:57 PM   #2887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunowill View Post
Hey guys just commenting back on my original post and all your suggestions that were made .


So I made the following changes :

Rear Diff 3000 Sct

I tryed leaning the shocks down

I also tryed increasing rear toe instead of the kit (0.75 mm shim ) I used a 1mm shim

I also tryed 35 wt oil in the front shocks with zero rebound and 30 wt in the rear shocks with zero rebound .

My camber remains at 1 degree and so does my toe out at 1 degree .


I am not sure what I am doing wrong but the car is still pushing . I do understand that you are supposed to be off the throttle coming into the corner and what not ...I get all that sort of stuff in terms of apex's ,coming out of the turn ,going into the turn etc ...

At my track I have a long sweeping corner ... My buddy with the same car ,same motor ,same gear ratio hits the corner at full throttle .....Where is my car if I give it too much it will push its way to the outside wall .

My buddies car is the kit setup with 1000 Sct diff oil and 35 wt shock oil in the front with zero rebound . Also layed down his rear shocks one hole . And droop is 3mm rear 2mm front (might be the other way around Im not 100% )

So basically I am totally lost on why my car is doing this and its starting to annoy me lol .....My car sits right now as the kit setup with the changes of the diff oil (3000 Sct) and Front shock oil (35wt ) ....Other than that its the same as the kit setup or what my buddy is running and not having problems with . ( His car seems like it has so much steering its not even funny ...I can barely drive the car because its so responsive and does not push ....However I feel that the only thing that my car needs that he doesnt have is alot of traction in the rear ....I guess my friends personal preference or driving style he is okay with that ....But I like my car tight in the rear .)

If you guys got any other suggestion or help that would be greatly appreciated .


Thanks in advance
Will,
All the things you summed up give you less steering.

To gain turn in you should:
- Run lighter oil in the rear 1000-2000
- Use the same springs front and rear
- Use the same oil front and rear
- Run stock toe or even less that stock

I run mod with my car and we use a lot steering. I usually run 350 in my shocks with 2.5 springs. Front and rear are the same.

And sauce your front as long as the rear if you still need more steering.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:21 PM   #2888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunowill View Post
Hey guys just commenting back on my original post and all your suggestions that were made .


So I made the following changes :

Rear Diff 3000 Sct

I tryed leaning the shocks down

I also tryed increasing rear toe instead of the kit (0.75 mm shim ) I used a 1mm shim

I also tryed 35 wt oil in the front shocks with zero rebound and 30 wt in the rear shocks with zero rebound .

My camber remains at 1 degree and so does my toe out at 1 degree .


I am not sure what I am doing wrong but the car is still pushing . I do understand that you are supposed to be off the throttle coming into the corner and what not ...I get all that sort of stuff in terms of apex's ,coming out of the turn ,going into the turn etc ...

At my track I have a long sweeping corner ... My buddy with the same car ,same motor ,same gear ratio hits the corner at full throttle .....Where is my car if I give it too much it will push its way to the outside wall .

My buddies car is the kit setup with 1000 Sct diff oil and 35 wt shock oil in the front with zero rebound . Also layed down his rear shocks one hole . And droop is 3mm rear 2mm front (might be the other way around Im not 100% )

So basically I am totally lost on why my car is doing this and its starting to annoy me lol .....My car sits right now as the kit setup with the changes of the diff oil (3000 Sct) and Front shock oil (35wt ) ....Other than that its the same as the kit setup or what my buddy is running and not having problems with . ( His car seems like it has so much steering its not even funny ...I can barely drive the car because its so responsive and does not push ....However I feel that the only thing that my car needs that he doesnt have is alot of traction in the rear ....I guess my friends personal preference or driving style he is okay with that ....But I like my car tight in the rear .)

If you guys got any other suggestion or help that would be greatly appreciated .


Thanks in advance
Will,


Hey guys Im back with some updates . So basically I have changed the following :

Put 30 Wt in the front shocks and layed them down one hole from the kit setup ... So third hole in from the outside .

Shortened the wheelbase in the rear ... took the shim from front of the control arm and moved it to the rear ... So both shim in rear of control arm .

I have 3mm droop rear and 2 mm droop in the front .

Also put 2 degrees camber around the whole car .

5mm ride hieght all the way around .

Still running 3000 Sct diff oil .



Results :


Night and day difference from my last post with my issues I basically took my lap time down a second at my track with this setup . I am very happy with it so far , However I do find it pushes slightly still no where near as bad as my old setup . I have placed some 2.5 springs on order to replace my 2.7 springs in the front . I think this will cure my slight push that the car still has .

I do however think my shocks where built on a different day than my buddies lol reason being ....Both rebuilt our shocks together ,no rebound on both , same oil , his tends to be a tiny bit softer when pushing on the front of the chassis .

Im not overly worried but Im real happy with the car now as I am running way better lap times ...I think it will be perfect once I try a lighter spring in the front .

Any other suggestions would be great as a few of your comments have defiantly helped me out .

I am wondering if I go to 2000Sct oil in my rear diff ....Could that help might slight push that Im still getting ?

I just feel the step from 1000 Sct to 3000Sct made my rear end have a ton of more traction and feel way better while driving ... Just wondering what your thoughts would be on 2000Sct with my current setup I have listed ???



Thanks
Will,

Last edited by yunowill; 03-05-2013 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:28 PM   #2889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yunowill View Post
Hey guys Im back with some updates . So basically I have changed the following :

Took the stock 0.75 mm shim off the rear control arms and have it screw directly on the bulkhead without a shim .

Put 30 Wt in the front shocks and layed them down one hole from the kit setup ... So third hole in from the outside .

Shortened the wheelbase in the rear ... took the shim from rear of the car moved it up front ... So both shim in front of control arm .

I have 3mm droop rear and 2 mm droop in the front .

Also put 2 degrees camber around the whole car .

Still running 3000 Sct diff oil .



Results :


Night and day difference from my last post with my issues I basically took my lap time down a second at my track with this setup . I am very happy with it so far , However I do find it pushes slightly still no where near as bad as my old setup . I have placed some 2.5 springs on order to replace my 2.7 springs in the front . I think this will cure my slight push that the car still has .

I do however think my shocks where built on a different day than my buddies lol reason being ....Both rebuilt our shocks together ,no rebound on both , same oil , his tends to be a tiny bit softer when pushing on the front of the chassis .

Im not overly worried but Im real happy with the car now as I am running way better lap times ...I think it will be perfect once I try a lighter spring in the front .

Any other suggestions would be great as a few of your comments have defiantly helped me out .

I am wondering if I go to 2000Sct oil in my rear diff ....Could that help might slight push that Im still getting ?

I just feel the step from 1000 Sct to 3000Sct made my rear end have a ton of more traction and feel way better while driving ... Just wondering what your thoughts would be on 2000Sct with my current setup I have listed ???



Thanks
Will,
Pushing how, in what part of the corner? The car will rotate a bit better with lighter oil. Another option is to try going to 1.5 degrees of camber in the rear.

If the move to 3000 oil made the car easier to drive, but you lost corner speed, you could try going back to 1000 or try 2000, and then widening the front end a little, which should smooth out the steering. It is especially effective off-center, like in quick direction changes like chicanes. Going to 1.9 or 2mm on front arm shims, from the stock 1.5mm at the arm holders, will smooth things out a bit.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:34 AM   #2890
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You may also want to consider Ackeman and bump steer to fine tune your steering throught the corner. I adjust ackeman for a different feel all the time...very effective.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:54 AM   #2891
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Glad we could help. I fought push with my T4 until 'JLFX Audio' helped me out one day, moving the rear arms forward was the 1st thing he had me to do. It was a totally different car after that.

My car turns on a dime with 2000wt in diff, 2.3-2.6 progressive springs rear, 2.5-2.8s in front, 1.5* camber f&r. I have a 1.2mm rear swaybar and have the links attatched to the inside pins on the arms.

As others have said, widening the front, bumpsteer and Ackerman adjustments are all good ways to fine tune now that you have the car going the right direction on setup.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:44 PM   #2892
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You may also want to consider Ackeman and bump steer to fine tune your steering throught the corner. I adjust ackeman for a different feel all the time...very effective.
When you say bump steer do you mean adding shims under the steering block arms? What gives what? I.e more shims = more steering etc
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:45 PM   #2893
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Originally Posted by alloyslash View Post
Glad we could help. I fought push with my T4 until 'JLFX Audio' helped me out one day, moving the rear arms forward was the 1st thing he had me to do. It was a totally different car after that.

My car turns on a dime with 2000wt in diff, 2.3-2.6 progressive springs rear, 2.5-2.8s in front, 1.5* camber f&r. I have a 1.2mm rear swaybar and have the links attatched to the inside pins on the arms.

As others have said, widening the front, bumpsteer and Ackerman adjustments are all good ways to fine tune now that you have the car going the right direction on setup.
So you moved the rear arms forward and shortened the wheelbase?
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:21 PM   #2894
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Originally Posted by Nathan Wilson View Post
When you say bump steer do you mean adding shims under the steering block arms? What gives what? I.e more shims = more steering etc
More shim is more steering. Per the manual:

RECOMMENDED BUMPSTEER SETTINGS:
Carpet - 1mm thick shim
Asphalt - 4mm thick shims (longer screw
must be used)
The number of shims changes the angles
of the steering linkage. When no shims are
used, the car is easy to drive into the corner.
As the number of shims is increased, in-corner
steering increases but the car becomes more
difficult to drive.
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Old 03-06-2013, 01:27 PM   #2895
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Originally Posted by Nathan Wilson View Post
So you moved the rear arms forward and shortened the wheelbase?
Nathan, your explanation is somewhat confusing but just by reading your threads, it seems that your car pushes at the entry of the corner too much, right? Then as you go through the corner and the car slows down, the car turns better and then you hit the throttle again at the exit and you go. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Just like you asked above, then shortening the wheelbase might be the answer. You seem to be confused about wheelbase vs trackwidth or may have used wrong term in your sentences. Well anyway, The car turns better with shorter wheelbase,e.g. in chicanes because it increases response. So if your car understeers at the entry of corner, then shorten it. If not better, then shorten trackwidth of front. The car is more stable with wider trackwidth of front but turns better with shorter trackwidth of front.
Make sure to check camber and toe in the front if you adjust trackwidth.
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Last edited by snuvet75; 03-06-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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