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Old 12-05-2012, 01:57 AM   #1801
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I uploaded a setup sheet if interested. Car is better than I am

http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...ID=74&setup=t4
kickup and anti squat in the same setup - very brave!

I normally run anti squat myself and to be honest did run about 0.2mm of kickup on the t3 '12 - which I had dialed! Yet to try it on the t4 as yet though.

I find that running anti squat definitely lets you drive the car much harder, although recently I have been playing with anti dive and no anti squat - not sure what I prefer, I think it depends on the type of track layout.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:18 AM   #1802
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Adjust the symmetry of the swaybar action via the links that connect to the arm. You can lengthen or shorten the links until you get symmetry. Also, for fine-tuning, you can slide the swaybar through the aluminum ball that connects to the links. It's important that the swaybar dynamics side-to-side are the same, the links are what they are to achieve this symmetry.....
You've contradicted yourself a bit there.
Anything you make different on each side will change the dynamics side to side. If that's the only way you can make things even, there is another problem that needs solving first.

You don't want different length roll bar links, you want everything exactly the same on both sides.
If you change where the 'ball end' is on the roll bar you are changing the tension on each side, again, preventing it from being the same on each side.

People need to do what others have suggested by checking that the bar is flat on a flat surface, and if not, bending it back to flat so it will be nice and even each side.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:21 AM   #1803
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kickup and anti squat in the same setup - very brave!

I normally run anti squat myself and to be honest did run about 0.2mm of kickup on the t3 '12 - which I had dialed! Yet to try it on the t4 as yet though.

I find that running anti squat definitely lets you drive the car much harder, although recently I have been playing with anti dive and no anti squat - not sure what I prefer, I think it depends on the type of track layout.
Mark, I thought Anti-dive was only going to be really usefull if grip was very high. Seem to recall it helped at Moto-Arena as the grip there became insane, but I haven't run anywhere since that has that level of grip.

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Old 12-05-2012, 03:28 AM   #1804
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Mark, I thought Anti-dive was only going to be really usefull if grip was very high. Seem to recall it helped at Moto-Arena as the grip there became insane, but I haven't run anywhere since that has that level of grip.

Skiddins
theoretically that is true, but to me the car feels better to drive than with flat pins.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:26 AM   #1805
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what make pinions is everyone running? 48dp or 64dp? and what are your reasons?

Thanks
I run 17.5 blinky, and use 64 pitch. I ran 64 pitch with a mod car, but after some thinking and talking to other drivers, I would probably run 48 pitch for anything faster then a 13.5 since the teeth have more meat to them. The T4 was designed with using the Xray pinion gears because they are narrow. I personally do not have any, so I use whatever I got but have to put the pinion on backwards, set screw on battery side not motor side. Of all the pinions I have, I seem to like the Trinity/Epic ones the best.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:56 AM   #1806
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You've contradicted yourself a bit there.
Anything you make different on each side will change the dynamics side to side. If that's the only way you can make things even, there is another problem that needs solving first.

You don't want different length roll bar links, you want everything exactly the same on both sides.
If you change where the 'ball end' is on the roll bar you are changing the tension on each side, again, preventing it from being the same on each side.

People need to do what others have suggested by checking that the bar is flat on a flat surface, and if not, bending it back to flat so it will be nice and even each side.
I guess I'm at a loss then. I spent some time last night going through everything making sure nothing is tweaked.
Went through the whole process of trying to set up the rear sway bar again, making sure the bar was flat, again. Arms and everything move very freely. Still was quite a bit off. I had to have the right side link 1.5 turns longer than the left in order to get equal lift.
Why would the links be adjustable if they are supposed to be the same? Wouldn't you want a solid link then?
Personally, I think it's the bar. It does not flex evenly or something
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:22 AM   #1807
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I guess I'm at a loss then. I spent some time last night going through everything making sure nothing is tweaked.
Went through the whole process of trying to set up the rear sway bar again, making sure the bar was flat, again. Arms and everything move very freely. Still was quite a bit off. I had to have the right side link 1.5 turns longer than the left in order to get equal lift.
Why would the links be adjustable if they are supposed to be the same? Wouldn't you want a solid link then?
Personally, I think it's the bar. It does not flex evenly or something
Same here although I didn't have to use as many turns of the sway bar links to get even lift right to left. After running the car for a full race day I rechecked and everything was a little more free so I needed less variance side to side. these sway bars aren't that thick and any binding will foul things up.

Did you try flipping the bar? If you still have the problem on the same side of the car it would tell me there is something other than the bar causing the problem.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:35 AM   #1808
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Ok, I got it. It was all in my rear hubs. Found I had one of the set screws for the hinge pin tighter than the other.
If the set screws are all the way snug, it does cause some bind. I backed them off equally so the pin was still secure but the bind was gone. Roll bar links are now even length, and all is well.
Thanks for your input everyone!

Last edited by Sean B.; 12-05-2012 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:47 AM   #1809
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
You've contradicted yourself a bit there.
Anything you make different on each side will change the dynamics side to side. If that's the only way you can make things even, there is another problem that needs solving first.

You don't want different length roll bar links, you want everything exactly the same on both sides.
If you change where the 'ball end' is on the roll bar you are changing the tension on each side, again, preventing it from being the same on each side.

People need to do what others have suggested by checking that the bar is flat on a flat surface, and if not, bending it back to flat so it will be nice and even each side.
I agree in theory that a flat swaybar, symmetrically bent, with isotropic material throughout, should have the same flex characteristics side-to-side. However, in practice with the bar installed in the car, I've always ended up making the final adjustments with the links. Intuitively, it's hard for me to imagine a bar installing perfectly without need for final adjustment when there are so many factors effecting it; chassis plate tweak, bulkheads, moldings, grub screws, link lengths and slop, arm binding, etc. can all effect the final install. Maybe my installation is flawed (grub screws not even, too tight, etc., etc.?) or I just don't have the patience to check everything, but this is how I've done it and it works for me. I've even gone so far on the T4 to install link ends from an ARC R10 to make the adjustments easier and finner (I'm not specifically recommending this to anyone...requires trimming the swaybars), because as we know the xray links only accommodate maximum half turn of adjustment resolution per link.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:10 AM   #1810
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kickup and anti squat in the same setup - very brave!
Try at your own risk. I tend to not look at other setups and consequently mine usually end up drifting out to no man's land.

For this one, I was looking to get a lot of off power turn in. The pro-dive loads the front tires a lot under hard braking and I feel like it adds a lot of initial steering. Specifically there is one turn on our track which is essentially a 180 with high entry speed. At this corner I was looking to get some initial steering so I could brake later. Because of the braking and loading the front of the car "shimmies" quite a bit, but it seems to turn well.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:20 PM   #1811
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I run 17.5 blinky, and use 64 pitch. I ran 64 pitch with a mod car, but after some thinking and talking to other drivers, I would probably run 48 pitch for anything faster then a 13.5 since the teeth have more meat to them.
Actually the opposite is true, more teeth have more surface area so less load per tooth BUT accurate gear messing is critical, in a bang fine teeth will strip easier, under load they are stronger, quieter and more efficient.

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Last edited by bucketboy; 12-05-2012 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:26 PM   #1812
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can someone tell me what this for ??


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The New Xray T4 '13-t4.jpg  
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:42 PM   #1813
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can someone tell me what this for ??


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Those holes are for the inner mount of the camber link. There are three holes to choose from for each link and they are used to adjust the roll center and camber gain.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:00 PM   #1814
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Those holes are for the inner mount of the camber link. There are three holes to choose from for each link and they are used to adjust the roll center and camber gain.
if i run the outer hole , less camber gain will make rear lose grip ??

the standard setup from the t4 is running outer hole front and rear.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:47 PM   #1815
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if i run the outer hole , less camber gain will make rear lose grip ??

the standard setup from the t4 is running outer hole front and rear.
Shorter link increases camber gain but the car rolls less
Longer link gives more roll but less camber gain
Both can increase traction but it depends on other settings (camber, springs,ect) witch one is correct for your situation
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