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Old 07-14-2013, 11:22 AM   #1651
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Originally Posted by .crispy View Post
Let's see a picture of four identical mounts?

I'm sorry, I don't believe that Spec-R has a faulty mold and produced exactly one kit with it.
That's your prerogative, and it's understandable, my initial reaction was the same as yours.

Your unwavering faith in the Spec-R quality control aside (despite posts in this thread pointing out other production faults), there was a more likely scenario that we ruled out before pointing fingers at the mold - were the parts in question actually on the parts tree in the first place? If not, it could simply be the case of an assembly line worker lobbing a couple of wrong parts in the bag. That happens with kits from pricier manufacturers, too.
While his answer can never be verified, he insists the parts in question were in fact stuck to the parts tree, and I chose take his word for it.

In the end it doesn't matter why this particular kit had four identical mounts, leading to asymmetrical toe. Putting the information out there and perhaps preventing people from having the same problem does, hence this warning.

As for your claim that only one kit is having this problem - you know there is the minute possibility that not every single S1 buyer lurks this thread?
Also, if you aren't looking for this exact problem, chances are you won't even notice. You always adjust front toe during setup anyway, largely compensating for errors in the inner toe, and as the rear toe is fixed, you don't spend time checking the symmetry there. In the end you might just wonder why, no matter what you do to the setup, your car never feels right.

In this particular case, it was a more seasoned driver who first noticed that the rear toe was off. It never ceases to amaze me how experienced hobbyists immediately spot problems beginners are oblivious to.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:33 PM   #1652
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Try to get a detailed photo of the mounts in question please. The only way offset mount won't work is if the hole for the bushings were all facing the same direction while still attached to the parts tree. Then, they would in fact not fit. If they face each other or face outwards (away from the tree) they should work. Your "mistake" mounts would require a defective mold to have been made. It's possible but not probable.
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:59 PM   #1653
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Tightened the belt, first a little, then a lot just to try, and it still rubs at full turn. I notice it grazes the endcaps as well. I think the whole steering linkage just needs to sit higher so I will try to shim below the arms instead. Or may just try the R1 set cuz its fun.

Has anyone else blasted the throttle with wheels fully turned while your S1 was on the stand?

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Oh I see what you mean. No, the rubbing happens well within the range of arms.
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:37 PM   #1654
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Originally Posted by SamuraiJack View Post
Tightened the belt, first a little, then a lot just to try, and it still rubs at full turn. I notice it grazes the endcaps as well. I think the whole steering linkage just needs to sit higher so I will try to shim below the arms instead. Or may just try the R1 set cuz its fun.

Has anyone else blasted the throttle with wheels fully turned while your S1 was on the stand?
I'll take a look at mine tonight while I've got the car apart. My front drive belt is pretty tight (not "loose" at all).

Will let you know the outcome.
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:45 PM   #1655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big al View Post
Try to get a detailed photo of the mounts in question please. The only way offset mount won't work is if the hole for the bushings were all facing the same direction while still attached to the parts tree. Then, they would in fact not fit. If they face each other or face outwards (away from the tree) they should work. Your "mistake" mounts would require a defective mold to have been made. It's possible but not probable.
If the CAD file/mold was faulty, something we'd need the original tree to prove, all four parts could very well be identical and on the same tree.

I almost regret telling you that my friend's S1 kit had a problem, and sharing an easy way to identify it, because somewhere along the way, for some silly reason, it became more about how the four identical mounts ended up in his kit and if they are indeed identical, than the fact that they did and how you can tell.

I'll pass on your request for a picture of his four identical mounts when he gets back from vacation, but if the sceptics from the spanish inquisition have more questions, direct them at someone else - I'm busy building an m-chassis sized Atomic VM-II kit
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:00 PM   #1656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakoo View Post
If the CAD file/mold was faulty, something we'd need the original tree to prove, all four parts could very well be identical and on the same tree.

I almost regret telling you that my friend's S1 kit had a problem, and sharing an easy way to identify it, because somewhere along the way, for some silly reason, it became more about how the four identical mounts ended up in his kit and if they are indeed identical, than the fact that they did and how you can tell.

I'll pass on your request for a picture of his four identical mounts when he gets back from vacation, but if the sceptics from the spanish inquisition have more questions, direct them at someone else - I'm busy building an m-chassis sized Atomic VM-II kit
Pictures or it did not happen.
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:39 PM   #1657
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Hhhmm what I noticed with my S1 was the camber link of the right hand front is actually longer than the left (but achieved equal camber settings, -2). I think there's around 1-2.5mm difference . Every time I cleaned it after a run and checking for wear and tear, I'm always puzzled why is it like that. I will check tonight if my front suspension mounts were not giving me equal toe.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:09 AM   #1658
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How do you guys measure droop? I've always been an offroad guy and there's a couple ways I'd normally consider but not sure with something that has such limited suspension travel.

Also, is there a good starting point for carpet?
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:50 AM   #1659
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Originally Posted by Bernard_Jr View Post
How do you guys measure droop? I've always been an offroad guy and there's a couple ways I'd normally consider but not sure with something that has such limited suspension travel.

Also, is there a good starting point for carpet?
There are probably a few ways, but the way I've seen it done and do it myself:

* Set your ride height on the setup board
* Put the chassis up on droop blocks
* Use a droop gauge to measure the distance to a specific point on the arms, usually it' somewhere around the outer pin. Use the same measurement for both front arms, and same for both rear arms
* Set the car down on your setup board again. Make sure your ride height is still as you set it. Then lift the front of the car up with the tip of your hex driver or something similar, until the wheels just barely lift off. Slip the ride height gauge under the the front and see what it measures now. Take the difference of the two ride heights and that is your droop.
* Figure out what setting you need on the droop gauge to get the droop you want. Once you figure that out, you can just use the droop gauge and not have to worry about doing the math after.

Hope that made sense, and hope I'm not doing it completely wrong
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:15 AM   #1660
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That does sound a tad bit involved. I relooked at the setup sheet and didn't realize that they are measuring the distance of the arm, at the outer hinge pin, above the chassis. It really never crossed my mind that the suspension might not extend past the chassis. I don't have the car here to look at. Is that right?

So couldn't I just lay the car flat on the chassis and basically eyeball this height with a caliper?
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Spec-R R1-droop.jpg  
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:17 AM   #1661
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SV-0220MG Standard High Voltage Servo 0.13/111.1 @7.4

Havnt bought a servo in a while haha. I'm on a budget and this savox struck me. Think that's enough power?
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:23 AM   #1662
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Originally Posted by Cody_ferone View Post
SV-0220MG Standard High Voltage Servo 0.13/111.1 @7.4

Havnt bought a servo in a while haha. I'm on a budget and this savox struck me. Think that's enough power?
I prefer the Savox SC-1251MG
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:24 AM   #1663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard_Jr View Post
How do you guys measure droop? I've always been an offroad guy and there's a couple ways I'd normally consider but not sure with something that has such limited suspension travel.

Also, is there a good starting point for carpet?
See this how-to video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul_AN1STUmU
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:42 PM   #1664
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Thank you. I'll pick up one of those tools.
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:15 PM   #1665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard_Jr View Post
That does sound a tad bit involved. I relooked at the setup sheet and didn't realize that they are measuring the distance of the arm, at the outer hinge pin, above the chassis. It really never crossed my mind that the suspension might not extend past the chassis. I don't have the car here to look at. Is that right?

So couldn't I just lay the car flat on the chassis and basically eyeball this height with a caliper?
You can do anything you feel works

But... onroad is all about the setup. I mean, driving too, but setup is a huge portion of it. So, if you are serious, invest in the tools and do the setup in known-to-work ways. Being able to repeat your setup, to the milometer, week after week, is the key to success. At least that's my take on it and what I'm still striving for.
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